The Pact

[manaheim]

You've got a new supporter . Now we just need a sticky to remind people to read stickies

I'm betting that won't happen.

If we all keep it in our sigs occasionally someone will see it and make a post and bump it inadvertantly.

Thanks for adding it to your sig!

 

[Jaszek]

no problem

 

[JamieR]

I think it's a good idea, but i think you all need to get out the house more, it's only a forum :lmao:

 

[Garbz]

Can we put a size restriction on the pact signature? Jeesh reading through this thread already gives my eyeaches

I think it's a good idea, but i think you all need to get out the house more, it's only a forum :lmao:

Don't encourage him. It's hard enough to keep him from leaving entirely. This has been a great community for years but has gone dramatically down hill <drama scene> with some notable members disappearing, leaving chaos, disorder and a complete lack of reason. <end drama scene>

 

[Dao]

Let see if my sig works .....

 

[musicaleCA]

+3.1415926... I like.

 

[leighthal]

I'm sc-a-re-d to post anything now. Some of you are making this so newbie unfriendly and I can't understand why. Yes, we all ask stupid questions at some point. Ahem, besides me of course. LOL :lmao: When someone is new they are unsure and need guidance to find the things they are looking for. It took me 3 weeks just to find the damn search button. Every time I found it they changed the theme and my search would begin again.
In regards to the pact.... I personally lost interest after paragraph one. (ADD at it's finest). The parts I did read seem like common sense. If someone doesn't have that "be nice, be helpful" filter then oh well, move on to the next comment. As a newbie I love getting critiques that are more involved on the technical side. I have learned a lot for some of you and hope to continue to do so. I also love the 'nice shot' 'thumbs up' etc etc comments. Art is subjective and not every post has to have a reason you like something. I would like to know that if I post a simple 'cool photo' comment it is received well and doesn't land me on the ignore pile.

In the end, I'll forgo the pact signature. While a sound idea, pacts are more geared for clubs. This is a forum. Forums breed all kinds, all manners and all opinions. It's up to me; the user, to sift through what is usable and what is not.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to post it Manaheim. (I apologize for my ADD profusely)

 

[Dagwood56]

I'm sc-a-re-d to post anything now. Some of you are making this so newbie unfriendly and I can't understand why. Yes, we all ask stupid questions at some point. Ahem, besides me of course. LOL :lmao: When someone is new they are unsure and need guidance to find the things they are looking for. It took me 3 weeks just to find the damn search button. Every time I found it they changed the theme and my search would begin again.
In regards to the pact.... I personally lost interest after paragraph one. (ADD at it's finest). The parts I did read seem like common sense. If someone doesn't have that "be nice, be helpful" filter then oh well, move on to the next comment. As a newbie I love getting critiques that are more involved on the technical side. I have learned a lot for some of you and hope to continue to do so. I also love the 'nice shot' 'thumbs up' etc etc comments. Art is subjective and not every post has to have a reason you like something. I would like to know that if I post a simple 'cool photo' comment it is received well and doesn't land me on the ignore pile.

In the end, I'll forgo the pact signature. While a sound idea, pacts are more geared for clubs. This is a forum. Forums breed all kinds, all manners and all opinions. It's up to me; the user, to sift through what is usable and what is not.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to post it Manaheim. (I apologize for my ADD profusely)

Its not meant to alienate or exclude anyone and there will always be photos cool enough or good enough to warrant a simple "good job". The problem is this [IMO], so many new users have come here and they post that they have just bought their first camera and pretty much ask how to use it and then they post that thread and move on to give C&C on other people's photos when they've just admitted they don't know anything. Unfortuneately, many times these people are saying "great job" to a photo by another newbie [when the photo is actually quite bad] and then that newbie thinks -"oh, hey! This is great, they liked it, I'm not as bad as I thought I was and continues on the same course without ever improving. As its been said before, it becomes an issue of the blind leading the blind and then no one learns anything. Yes, it is common sense to be polite etc., but in today's society, common sense has pretty much flown the coop and many people need to be reminded.....just more of my 2 cents.

 

[fwellers]

I'm sc-a-re-d to post anything now. Some of you are making this so newbie unfriendly and I can't understand why. Yes, we all ask stupid questions at some point. Ahem, besides me of course. LOL :lmao: When someone is new they are unsure and need guidance to find the things they are looking for. It took me 3 weeks just to find the damn search button. Every time I found it they changed the theme and my search would begin again.
In regards to the pact.... I personally lost interest after paragraph one. (ADD at it's finest). The parts I did read seem like common sense. If someone doesn't have that "be nice, be helpful" filter then oh well, move on to the next comment. As a newbie I love getting critiques that are more involved on the technical side. I have learned a lot for some of you and hope to continue to do so. I also love the 'nice shot' 'thumbs up' etc etc comments. Art is subjective and not every post has to have a reason you like something. I would like to know that if I post a simple 'cool photo' comment it is received well and doesn't land me on the ignore pile.

In the end, I'll forgo the pact signature. While a sound idea, pacts are more geared for clubs. This is a forum. Forums breed all kinds, all manners and all opinions. It's up to me; the user, to sift through what is usable and what is not.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to post it Manaheim. (I apologize for my ADD profusely)

Its not meant to alienate or exclude anyone and there will always be photos cool enough or good enough to warrant a simple "good job". The problem is this [IMO], so many new users have come here and they post that they have just bought their first camera and pretty much ask how to use it and then they post that thread and move on to give C&C on other people's photos when they've just admitted they don't know anything. Unfortuneately, many times these people are saying "great job" to a photo by another newbie [when the photo is actually quite bad] and then that newbie thinks -"oh, hey! This is great, they liked it, I'm not as bad as I thought I was and continues on the same course without ever improving. As its been said before, it becomes an issue of the blind leading the blind and then no one learns anything. Yes, it is common sense to be polite etc., but in today's society, common sense has pretty much flown the coop and many people need to be reminded.....just more of my 2 cents.

The forum reflects real life to a certain extent. Many times IRL people who are new at something together, will encourage each other. Nothing wrong with that. some people just like to say nice things to others. Nothing wrong with that either.
A person who is seeking critique, will have to be able to make judgements on the person critiquing them, as well as the actual critique given. That also is a reflection of real life.
I don't think the sole purpose of the forum is to make people better photographers through critique. Yes that is a good product of this forum and others, but it is just as imperfect as people themselves are.
And some people don't view that as the be all and end all of the forum. They want support, comraderie, and a place to hang out too. It takes all kinds.

 

[Chris of Arabia]

I'm sc-a-re-d to post anything now.

Just keep posting and doing what you can do to improve your own output. People will post stuff that you're not going to enjoy reading from time to time, pact or no pact - some may be useful and other stuff not so. When it gets to the point where the feedback is heading down the offensive route, just report it and it will get dealt with appropriately*.

* for the more sensitive amongst us, that doesn't necessarily mean the mods are going to delete/ban/warn anyone.

 

[Chris of Arabia]

OK, 'Interview with a Mod' has now been tucked away out of sight.

 

[SonnarSphere]

The problem is this [IMO], so many new users have come here and they post that they have just bought their first camera and pretty much ask how to use it and then they post that thread and move on to give C&C on other people's photos when they've just admitted they don't know anything.

where on the forum has this occurred? and is there more than one
instance of it, per hundred or even per thousand posts?
and what is outrageous about about a novice saying..
i like this/i dont like that.

i think in art (subject photography), this is about all you can say!
the statements 'that is good', 'that is bad'. belongs to establishment
Art Salon of the 1800's. if people are crap photographers in your view,
just ignore them. or be charitable and find something positive to say.

we can sit using photo.net 'rate photos' all day, giving 1 for aestethic
and 1 for originality.let it out!! :0)

Unfortuneately, many times these people are saying "great job" to a photo by another newbie [when the photo is actually quite bad] and then that newbie thinks -"oh, hey! This is great, they liked it, I'm not as bad as I thought I was and continues on the same course without ever improving.

this seems to me to be based on assumptions, generalisations.
who is this newbie and how is it possible to read this newbie's mind?
it assumes that this newbie is stimulated and motivated
only by some 'supervisor', here on the forum who operates
this newbie as if by remote-control.

how can it asserted that the person will continue to make identical
copies of the picture that disgusted you until 're-programmed' by
criticism and how it can be asserted that they will 'never improve'
unless 'an expert' acts as a catalyst for advancement (advancement
compatible with the 'experts' values and beliefs)?

i just think the stance of a pact is absolutist. everything can be improved,
including this 'manifesto' which contains (in DRAFT form) several
'will not/can not/shall not' type statements. in using negative dialogue,
these don't actually mean anything tangible. 'i will not' doesn't inform
anyone what a person WILL.

e.g "i will not eat soup for lunch"

so..do we know what will be eaten for lunch?

no.

so, what WILL the pact do?
and is it useful? ecologically sound in terms of a group dynamic..and
what is the desired outcome. and when is this outcome to be achieved?

and how do we know when it has been achieved?
and what do we do then?

 

[mikemicki]

I think this is a good idea. I'm in. eacemrgreen:

 

[Dagwood56]

~~~SIGH~~~ If I worded something improperly than I apologize, I was not meaning to offend anyone, and I don't intend to engage in an argument. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I stated mine as best I could and thats all it was - an opinion.

 

[SonnarSphere]

i pick up on what is posted and debate it. is my only intention. you can be
confident that that is something different than a personalised criticism targeted
at you, Carol.

written communication is important in this forum. as important as the pictures.
i feel that if people allow pride and reputation to become tangled up in a hasty
posture, codified in a list of rules, it will be less than successful - and that will
be frustrating. it is quite possible some of the 'best' photographers are the
least capable educators. that's a challenge.