The wrong way. Learn the fundamentals.

[dxqcanada]

I think the question is ... WHAT ARE YOU PRACTICING ?

 

[Ron Evers]

Fifty years ago I bought a SLR after having a rangefinder & learned by trying with the aid of a light-meter. A hand-held light-meter makes it very aparent the relationship between film speed (ISO), aperture & shutter speed. This relationship is lost in modern automatic cameras.

 

[pgriz]

I learned by doing. In my blissful ignorance of any principles I shot what I thought were good shots. But I couldn't reproduce them. When I started trying to understand the theory, I began to see why certain things worked, and why others didn't. In retrospect, if I had to do it all over again, I would have been better off taking at least the basic workshops, which would have saved me a number of years of "wandering in the wilderness". The learning curve is more of a spiral, with each bit of new knowledge enlarging the "known world" and allowing more questions and more awareness to happen. By contrast, relatively recently I got interested in sea kayaking, and started almost immediately with courses and practice with more experienced kayakers. With them I was able to progress pretty quickly from being very green and ignorant noob, to a reasonably competent kayaker who can roll, do long distances without undue fatigue, and can handle navigation and challenging weather. It would have taken me many more years and probably a few mishaps to acquire what I know now. Photography is not quite as life-challenging, but the principles of using knowledge are the same.

 

[Stutterfly]

I think Keith (the OP) posts some great info on this forum, but I don't completely agree here. I can understand that it is probably not enjoyable as an experienced photographer to look over someone's crappy photos and post constructive criticism.

Come now...everyone likes to feel a bit superior sometimes

The fact is, some people learn by doing, others by studying. I'm the former, for sure.

 

[Stradawhovious]

Like the OP says...... Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

That being said, for a lot of us here, taking the time to study, research, and slave away at the fundamentals right out of the gate would quickly succeed in sucking the fun out of the hobby in it's entirety. Besides, the easiest way to learn is by ****ing up. (provided you absorb its lesson of course)

I'm far from perfect. I make plenty of mistakes. I don't eat sleep and breathe fundamentals, but I have taken some time to study them. My images and knowledge are substantially better than they were this time 6 months ago.

I'll get there eventually, and have more fun than should be legal in the process.

 

[dxqcanada]

"Flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Douglas Adams

"He who learns but does not think, is lost! He who thinks but does not learn is in great danger."
Confucius

 

[tirediron]

IMO, many beginners I see here on TPF are going about learning how to do photography, the wrong way.
They are often told by others to shoot, shoot, shoot, or practice, practice, practice, which is also the wrong way if shooting and practice is not done within a solidly grounded framework of understanding.

I'm going to disagree here, at least in part. It sounds to me like you're speaking at least in part, as an old film guy (Takes one to know one) and remember the days when practicing had to be done conservatively because damn it, it cost money! These days, I believe that guided practice is about the best thing that anyone can do. Additionally, it really depends on what you're going to do with your photography; if all you want to be able to do is take nicer vacation pics than the Jones next door, do you really need an in-depth understanding of the relationship between aperture and strobed light? Ehh... maybe not. A basic understanding of the priority modes and the rule of thirds will likely do it.

The way to build that framework of understanding is to learn the fundamentals - composition, use of light, exposure, focal length, depth-of-field, white balance, flash (strobed light), etc., and apply those fundamentals to your photography.

As part of your practice, practice, practice!

Beginners should be doing their own C&C, because if you can't see the problems with your photos yourself, it means you haven't yet learned/understood the fundamentals.

Sorry, I REALLY disagree with this statement. Yes people should always try and critique their work, but failure to recognize a flaw in your own work doesn't mean you don't know what you're doing - how many times have you written something down and totally missed a spelling error? I would hope that in the 25+ years my eye has been staring into a viewfinder, it has picked up a few tips and tricks that someone with lesser experience doesn't have and that I can (and hopefully do) give a more thorough, detailed critique.

Not understanding the fundamentals is also why so many people have to ask - What camera should I get?/What lens should I get?/What flash should I get?

Like you, I too tend to get a little annoyed with people who seem to want all the answers without doing the work, but I think what we often forget is that without a little guidance some people don't know how to do the work.

IMO, this Beginners Forum section should be filled with technical questions, not requests for C&C.

A request for C&C really is a technical question, because good C&C should not only list the problems with the image (as well of course as the strengths) but how to rectify them. There's no point in saying "The sun in your sunset photo is blown" if you don't also tell them that a G-ND would help to eliminate that problem.

 

[burgo]

Firearms: Don't learn any safety fundamentals, just pick up a gun and use it! Hot tip--start with a .357 Magnum revolver! Home remodeling electrical wiring: who needs to know about breaker boxes and electricity--just grab some wires and start wiring! Driving an automobile: Hell, your kids have SEEN you do it a million times, so let them drive the car to the store, or around town, or whenever they want--and save the money that driving lessons would cost! Ocean kayaking? Screw all that planning and practicing, just buy an ocean-capable kayak at REI and head down to the shore,and begin your trek bound for Alaska...your chances of making it there are as good as the untrained revolver owner's chances of not blowing off a toe. What--have we become a nation filled with people who are afraid to just pick something up and do,do,do!!!? Huh? Huh?

if you are being "ironic" then brilliant post, but if you really mean what you wrote then comparing a camera to those things is just plain stupid. I hope you are meaning to be funny as I don't know you I am not sure.

 

[bentcountershaft]

Learning the fundamentals first really isn't that strange of an idea, at least to me. I learned to read music years before I picked up an instrument.

 

[Derrel]

Firearms: Don't learn any safety fundamentals, just pick up a gun and use it! Hot tip--start with a .357 Magnum revolver! Home remodeling electrical wiring: who needs to know about breaker boxes and electricity--just grab some wires and start wiring! Driving an automobile: Hell, your kids have SEEN you do it a million times, so let them drive the car to the store, or around town, or whenever they want--and save the money that driving lessons would cost! Ocean kayaking? Screw all that planning and practicing, just buy an ocean-capable kayak at REI and head down to the shore,and begin your trek bound for Alaska...your chances of making it there are as good as the untrained revolver owner's chances of not blowing off a toe. What--have we become a nation filled with people who are afraid to just pick something up and do,do,do!!!? Huh? Huh?

if you are being "ironic" then brilliant post, but if you really mean what you wrote then comparing a camera to those things is just plain stupid. I hope you are meaning to be funny as I don't know you I am not sure.

Yes...I was thinking I was being ironic when I wrote that. "ironic" in the sense of

ironic –noun, plural -nies.
1.
the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend.
2.
Literature .
a.
a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.

 

[burgo]

Firearms: Don't learn any safety fundamentals, just pick up a gun and use it! Hot tip--start with a .357 Magnum revolver! Home remodeling electrical wiring: who needs to know about breaker boxes and electricity--just grab some wires and start wiring! Driving an automobile: Hell, your kids have SEEN you do it a million times, so let them drive the car to the store, or around town, or whenever they want--and save the money that driving lessons would cost! Ocean kayaking? Screw all that planning and practicing, just buy an ocean-capable kayak at REI and head down to the shore,and begin your trek bound for Alaska...your chances of making it there are as good as the untrained revolver owner's chances of not blowing off a toe. What--have we become a nation filled with people who are afraid to just pick something up and do,do,do!!!? Huh? Huh?

if you are being "ironic" then brilliant post, but if you really mean what you wrote then comparing a camera to those things is just plain stupid. I hope you are meaning to be funny as I don't know you I am not sure.

Yes...I was thinking I was being ironic when I wrote that. "ironic" in the sense of

ironic –noun, plural -nies.
1.
the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend.
2.
Literature .
a.
a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.

now you are just being sarcastic :lmao: As I said if irony was intended then it was a brilliant post.

 

[tirediron]

now you are just being sarcastic :lmao: As I said if irony was intended then it was a brilliant post.

Derrel? Sarcastic? :scratch: Surely you jest! :lmao:

 

[bentcountershaft]

As long as it isn't Alanis Morissette's definition of ironic I think it will be ok.

 

[sanderso]

Clearly, people learn differently....some by "book learning", others by jumping into it. If TPF is to be worthwhile to beginners, it shouldn't matter which type of learner he/she is. TPF should be an outlet for both.

In my case, I've learned tons from the C&C requests on this forum. By using the critiques to calibrate my own eye, I've gained valuable perspective about how to look at the technical elements of an image. Without that perspective, I wouldn't know how to improve my own shots through self-critique.

Using C&C postings, am I an experienced photog? No...far from it. Have I improved my knowledge to make my next shot better? Yes....at least I've gained confidence to push the envelope a bit. In the meantime, I'm able to enjoy this hobby even more than before.

 

[Forkie]

I'm also a do-er, not a reader. Whereas I understand that the fundamentals are important, studying them night and day would turn me off photography completely. It reminds of the Friends episode where Pheobe tries to teach Joey how to play the guitar, but says he's not allowed to touch a guitar.

I've been taking photos for nearly 4 years now and although I don't really know the mathematics of aperture, I know how aperture affects my photos and what to set it on to get the DOF I want - it suits me well and I'll continue to shoot and glance at books now and again - eventually the theory will click into place. At the end of the day if the photo is good, you've reached your goal. Everyone will say "Wow! Great photo!", but no one is going to say "nice, but now for a test on DOF using aperture - answers in essay form".