The wrong way. Learn the fundamentals.

[TheGreatGonzo]

IMO, this Beginners Forum section should be filled with technical questions, not requests for C&C.

I would opine that (and I say this with all due respect for KmH's level of experience as a professional photographer and author), in many cases, the technical questions are the result of C&C gained from more experienced photographers. It would seem the easy solution for an experienced photographer who does not like to provide C&C to beginners would simply be to choose not to do so. Those who choose to do so could continue in that practice and assist beginners who appreciate the effort and find it to be a valuable part of their learning process. I know that for me personally, the C&C of experienced photographers is simply one part of my learning process. I have been reading just about every book on photography that I can get (I think I'm on my 4th time reading Understanding Exposure). I have attended some classes and training. I have been practicing...a lot. And, in addition, I have submitted photos for feedback so I can add those opinions and suggestions to my toolbox. I can only speak for myself, but I know that, as a beginner, I find that C&C to be valuable, even when harsh.
Respectfully,
Gonzo

 

[KmH]

I was hoping to start a good discussion, hopefully get people to more closely examine their methodology for learning to do photography, and ponder what other approaches the discussion might yield. :thumbup:

I'm an impatient sort, a hard charger when it comes to learning so to speak. I'm the kind of person that likes to take things apart (actually or figuratively), see what they look like inside, and by doing so understand how they work.

Learning is a building block process. You have to know how to add and subtract, before you can effectively do multiplication and division. Put another way, there are no short cuts, but you can make the journey a lot longer by taking an ad hoc approach, necessitating you retrace steps.

 

[Jace]

IMO, this Beginners Forum section should be filled with technical questions, not requests for C&C.

I would opine that (and I say this with all due respect for KmH's level of experience as a professional photographer and author), in many cases, the technical questions are the result of C&C gained from more experienced photographers. It would seem the easy solution for an experienced photographer who does not like to provide C&C to beginners would simply be to choose not to do so. Those who choose to do so could continue in that practice and assist beginners who appreciate the effort and find it to be a valuable part of their learning process. I know that for me personally, the C&C of experienced photographers is simply one part of my learning process. I have been reading just about every book on photography that I can get (I think I'm on my 4th time reading Understanding Exposure). I have attended some classes and training. I have been practicing...a lot. And, in addition, I have submitted photos for feedback so I can add those opinions and suggestions to my toolbox. I can only speak for myself, but I know that, as a beginner, I find that C&C to be valuable, even when harsh.
Respectfully,
Gonzo

I agree, for me posting pics for c&c helps me to identify what's wrong, and hopefully look out for it next time, and if I can't fix it next time I will hopefully narrow down what it is that I'm doing wrong.

For example, the last set of images I posted for c&c I blew some whites. I didn't even realize that I'd blown some whites until someone pointed it out, and then I was like... 'Wow, I guess I really did. Didn't even realize it!' So, next time I'm out, hopefully I can avoid blowing whites and work on ways to not blow them.

 

[baturn]

Sorry, but Derrel's examples were more moronic than ironic.

 

[TheGreatGonzo]

I was hoping to start a good discussion, hopefully get people to more closely examine their methodology for learning to do photography, and ponder what other approaches the discussion might yield. :thumbup:

I'm an impatient sort, a hard charger when it comes to learning so to speak. I'm the kind of person that likes to take things apart (actually or figuratively), see what they look like inside, and by doing so understand how they work.

Learning is a building block process. You have to know how to add and subtract, before you can effectively do multiplication and division. Put another way, there are no short cuts, but you can make the journey a lot longer by taking an ad hoc approach, necessitating you retrace steps.

I think your post served your purpose well. And hopefully you did not take offense at my response or interpret it as a perceived unwillingness to help beginners on your part. You have obviously provided many well written articles and tutorials for just that purpose. I appreciate them and II enjoy reading them.
Gonzo

 

[Mugen80]

Learning is a building block process. You have to know how to add and subtract, before you can effectively do multiplication and division. Put another way, there are no short cuts, but you can make the journey a lot longer by taking an ad hoc approach, necessitating you retrace steps.

It is possible that you make take longer to learn things but the length of the journey varies from person to person. People learn differently and get to different levels differently. Im sure there are plenty of pro photogs who never took a photo class. They may be in the minority but they are out there. Long story short, not everything is in black and white.

 

[Derrel]

"I recently bought some new studio lights called Alien Yellowjackets. Their studio mondolites I guess you'd call them. When I take a picture with them, they do not flash, but the bright, hot lightbulbs in each Alien Yellowjacket stays on, and if I set my camera's ISO wayyyyy up there, like 1600 or 3200,and slow my shutter wayyyyy down to like 1/10 of a second, I can get a pretty good lighting effect. I am using a Nikon D90, if that makes any difference. My question is how to get the camera lens and the lights to line up,so to speak when I press the shutter button. The lights came with a 20 foot sink cord with a funny plug-in end on it; does this sink cord have anything to do with getting the lights to line up with the shutter? Is there somebody here who can help me? I have not had time to read the manual that came with the mondolites."

Okay.....now, the above example has some hyperbole in it, and some funnies for you grammar police, and self-styled editors and arbiters of taste so please no complaints, and yet, I swear that I have read the EXACT same post three or four times here on TPF, with minor variations. This is a real, genuine hypothetical example (ya' like that phrase, do ya'?) of a person who has NO IDEA of how to use flash equipment because he/she has not bothered to read the instruction manual; has not bothered to watch a single YouTube video; has not talked to a single sales associate in a real camera store; has not talked with another photographer who owns the type of equipment in question; and who has absolutely ZERO information on how to use equipment for which he/she has payed hundreds and hundreds of dollars. Again, I'm not kidding---me, gsgary,KmH, and others, have actually helped people here, people who were unaware that the studio monolights they bought were not flashing, OR that they were not "hot lights"!!!

This mondolites [sic] example I reconstructed is one example of why learning "the basics" can be so,so helpful; the sad part is that with today's higher end photo gear being so common and so affordable, the field of photography now has many newcomers who do not know what it is they do not know. That's what I find ironic--newbies who think they know it all, when they do not even have an inkling of how much they do not even know about, and have never even heard about. One,single NIGHT spent at home, perusing a real photography instruction book written by John Hedgecoe, or Kodak, or the Time-Life corporation, would give the majority of newcomers a primer, an overview, of photographic equipment, techniques, and general practices. And yet, the world is filled with people who, if their camera in their hands were replaced with a gun or knife or power tool, would be literally dangerous due to lack of infomation!!!

I'm not trying to make fun of beginners; I love to help, and to teach, and I spend a lot of time here helping people with photo issues. But I agree with KmH--learning WHAT the "fundamentals" are beforehand really,really speeds up the learning process. I advocate the local public library, or one's school or university library as the place to learn about photography. The web is a good resource as well, but I honestly think that the professional writers and instructors from such companies as Kodak have the inside track on writing primers and overview books, more so than individuals who put videos onto YouTube.

 

[Light Artisan]

Photography shouldn't be taught, it should be explored.

You could ruin a potentially incredible photographer by teaching them the fundamentals.

 

[Derrel]

Does an explorer use a compass, or some kind of navigational aids, or just wander around aimlessly?

 

[tirediron]

Photography shouldn't be taught, it should be explored.

You could ruin a potentially incredible photographer by teaching them the fundamentals.

:scratch: How the heck do you figure that????? I agree that photography must be explored, but how can you explore something effectively if you have no idea of what is around you?

 

[Light Artisan]

My point is that everyone is different... some are naturals, others need every book and YouTube video they can find.

You simply cannot put all photographers in the same bucket of generalization.

 

[Overread]

By naturals I'm assuming you mean natural with regard to artistic composition rather than natural to the triangle of exposure - depth of field - camera operation - light manipulation etc..... I don't think I've yet met anyone who can master all the technical and artistic sides of the camera just by picking one up and taking a single frame. Sure some have that "natural eye" but if they don't learn learn how to use the tools then the eye won't be much good at all.

There is the school of thought that some things should be guided rather than flat out instructed - such as composition - however its a method not possible with random interactions with people - you need a structured and enforced learning environment so that the "guide/mentor/teacher" can give consistent guidance. It does not work as one off advice on a thread on a forum because the subtle guides might be misinterpreted or missed

 

[rlemert]

There is a very effective form of education in which you give the students a problem and have them attempt to solve it. You don't care if they actually get an answer. You don't even care that they don't yet have all the tools they're going to need because you're going to give them those tools in your upcoming lecture. All you care about is that they think about the problem, about what additional information they might need, and how they might use that additional information. By doing this, when you do give the students the new information they need they are motivated to understand what you're saying and can see its relevence. Thus, when you ask them to repeat the exercise, they can assimilate your new information more quickly, the problem gets solved sooner, and the information is retained more effectively.

A similar approach to photography would be just as effective. Give the students an assignment and have them try to carry it out. When they come back with their first attempts, point out the fundamentals that would have helped them be better and show them - on their pictures - how you would apply those fundamentals to that picture. Then, send them back out to try again.

 

[bentcountershaft]

I have my own method and it's the only one I've found that is proven to correct this behavior utilizing a punishment/reward training system. Punishment - If you miss your exposure by more than 1/2 stop someone rips off one of their toe nails. Reward - If they nail the exposure then they get to punish the next student. No matter the subject it seems to get people's attention and align priorities quickly.

 

[inaka]

It's incredibly presumptuous of anyone to dictate to others what the best method is for learning. Some people learn by reading the manual and studying everything they can before even attempting their first shot. Others fire up the camera, take tons of shots, review, and then learn from their mistakes.

Neither way is "wrong" at all. You have to do what's best for yourself.

One of the best hitters in baseball, Ichiro, has a horrible batting stance to most purists. They kept telling him that he needed to have his swing be fundamentally sound and coaches tried to change his approach to the plate at every level. He didn't because his swing works for him, and he'll likely be inducted into the Hall of Fame. So again, one person's way of thinking is great and may work for them, but to use a blanket assumption that there's only one way to approach learning is pretty ridiculous.