Upgrade lens or body??

[prodigy2k7]

Saving up another 700 for a body isn't as east as it sounds. Especially for a college student who already budgeted for the 7d and already is paying a lot for it. 5d mk2 is just out of the question.

Your excuse is duly noted. I find it fairly weak though, tbh.

A lot of what you said about the 7d fan boys and whatnot can easily be said about derrel. He's all nikon and always bags canon products.

Except for the fact that he congratulated me on my 5DMKII and went into some detail about what a great camera it is and how much he knew I'd enjoy it.

You folks seem to just want to see what you want to see and believe what you want to believe, while ignoring any evidence to the contrary.

I don't get it. :er:

The 5d is overkill for me. I simple don't have the money to get all that pro gear. How is that hard to understand? Why are you defending derail anyways? I think you have a lot in common and not in a good way. By your logic just save up for a few more months and get the 1D mark iv. People simply can't or dont want to dish out that extra cash and rather get lenses and other gear.

I think I invented a new way to spell derrels name haha.

 

[Buckster]

Saving up another 700 for a body isn't as east as it sounds. Especially for a college student who already budgeted for the 7d and already is paying a lot for it. 5d mk2 is just out of the question.

Your excuse is duly noted. I find it fairly weak though, tbh.

...

You folks seem to just want to see what you want to see and believe what you want to believe, while ignoring any evidence to the contrary.

I don't get it. :er:

Purely from a psychological standpoint:

Why? Why are you trying to ignite a fire in the middle of an ocean?

Why? Why don't you ask them why they're always trying to ignite a fire when someone has something to say about the 7D that doesn't fit with their rhetoric?

Money is tight for some people -- you can't tell them they have a weak excuse because they can't go out and spend an extra $700 on a camera body.

Sure I can. I just did. See how that works?

More importantly than your camera body is putting food on the table, having clean clothes, and a roof over your head, a good education?

Oh, I see... Nearly starving, nearly homeless students who are barely getting through school and on the verge of losing their education entirely are in that shape because the cost of a camera body has them right on the edge of disaster - spend $1500 to $3000 on camera body and gear to go with it, and everything's hunky-dorry. But spend $2500 to $4000, and their lives go down the drain. Got it.

Then perhaps they should stick with the least expensive cameras, maybe even used point and shoots or old film cameras, not body's that cost nearly $1.5 grand for the body, plus a piece of L glass to give it any shot at all of being better than what they're upgrading from, bigger CF card to deal with the large files, extra battery, maybe a grip, tax, etc.

Oh, I'm sorry... Were you trying to make more poor excuses again? My bad.

A poor excuse, or poor judgement on your behalf? I guess I just don't understand why you'd ever attack someone who can't come up with extra money.

You call what I said above an "attack" on someone? But you don't see what they've been laying on Derrel as an attack? WTF?

News flash: Your faux moral superiority just crashed hard into the pile of bull excrement you carefully laid out in preparation for this dialogue.

If the 'extra' factor played into it, everyone would skip out on their XSis and head straight for 1Ds, and tote around a bag full of L lenses, and accessories galore.
Maybe a bit overkill on my part, but how unnecessary of you to say something like that, especially when you don't know the situation.

I repeat: Your faux moral superiority has crashed and burned already.

Not to mention that the 7D is perfectly capable of producing excellent shots.

Thank you, fan boy with no experience to compare it to. You rock.

And don't try to say that in saying 'duly noted' what i've just said should be completely disregarded, because 'duly noted' translates directly to 'i'm covering my ass here, but'.

I would never even consider it. You've said enough already to take care of that all by yourself.

 

[dcmoody23]

I must say - I'm impressed with the time spent organizing that post.
Some valid stuff, I agree, but I really don't get this faux moral superiority you claim ... I don't view myself as superior whatsoever, and I really don't feel as if backing up the people who you go after because they don't have extra cash laying around is even relative to what you're trying to make me out to be. I'm not trying to make myself appear better, or bash anyone.. I just feel like people know their limits, and shouldn't have to explain themselves to some random guy over the internet who tells them they should dish out extra cash they don't have.

Fan boy seems to be your favorite thing to call as a name. But what do you consider the consumers? When you shoot with your 7D instead of your 5D do you have clients say "No, don't want that. Not high enough quality of a camera to deserve spending my hard earned cash on." I didn't think so. You're just being plain rude, and you've highjacked the OPs post. Since I know you won't, I will. Sorry OP for having your post highjacked by an inconsiderate narcissist. I mean this is just ridiculous.. Why fight? It's a PHOTOGRAPHY FORUM

 

[Buckster]

The 5d is overkill for me. I simple don't have the money to get all that pro gear. How is that hard to understand?

It's not hard to understand at all. Now you try:

The 7D is not all that the fan boys make it out to be, just as Derrel and others with experience and knowledge in the camera industry have been saying, as I have now discovered first hand by buying, owning and shooting it. How is THAT so hard to understand?

Why are you defending derail anyways?

Because he's constantly being attacked over this unfairly, and it's time someone who owns and shoots this camera sets the record straight; Someone who's not too shy or embarrassed to say "I spent $1700 on what I thought would be an awesome camera body, and all I got instead was this stupid 7D full of noise and dots that makes editing feel like I'm sifting through dull sand."

I think you have a lot in common and not in a good way.

Such as? Oh, you mean like being realistic, knowlegeable, honest and intelligent. Why, thank you!

By your logic just save up for a few more months and get the 1D mark iv.

That works too, but it's only comparable if the camera below that one in price is unnacceptable for some reason.

People simply can't or dont want to dish out that extra cash and rather get lenses and other gear.

More excuses. How charming! How much do you figure they're willing to spend on "lenses and other gear" to put on a camera that sucks compared to a camera that rocks but costs a few hundred bucks more? Ballpark figure will be fine, and you don't need to answer in the form of a question on this one. Take your time...

I think I invented a new way to spell derrels name haha.

Haha... yeah, that's a real knee-slapper! Golly gee, your mom must be so proud o your raw wit!

 

[prodigy2k7]

The 5d is overkill for me. I simple don't have the money to get all that pro gear. How is that hard to understand?

It's not hard to understand at all. Now you try:

The 7D is not all that the fan boys make it out to be, just as Derrel and others with experience and knowledge in the camera industry have been saying, as I have now discovered first hand by buying, owning and shooting it. How is THAT so hard to understand?

Why are you defending derail anyways?

Because he's constantly being attacked over this unfairly, and it's time someone who owns and shoots this camera sets the record straight; Someone who's not too shy or embarrassed to say "I spent $1700 on what I thought would be an awesome camera body, and all I got instead was this stupid 7D full of noise and dots that makes editing feel like I'm sifting through dull sand."


Such as? Oh, you mean like being realistic, knowlegeable, honest and intelligent. Why, thank you!


That works too, but it's only comparable if the camera below that one in price is unnacceptable for some reason.

People simply can't or dont want to dish out that extra cash and rather get lenses and other gear.

More excuses. How charming! How much do you figure they're willing to spend on "lenses and other gear" to put on a camera that sucks compared to a camera that rocks but costs a few hundred bucks more? Ballpark figure will be fine, and you don't need to answer in the form of a question on this one. Take your time...

I think I invented a new way to spell derrels name haha.

Haha... yeah, that's a real knee-slapper! Golly gee, your mom must be so proud o your raw wit!

A lot of noise in the 7d? What world so you live in?

You are acting immature for your age assuming that picture by you name is you. About derrels name. It was a typo. Wasn't a joke or anything.

Glass over body. 5d is overkill for my needs. I don't have the glass for it. I'm done talking with a brick wall.

 

[cfusionpm]

Some of us don't have the luxury to buy a pro line camera.

Anyone who can save up $1700 or so to get the 7D can save a bit longer to get up another $700 and get a 5DMKII.

I actually very much agree with this. Unfortunately, Canon doesn't make a full frame camera that can keep up with the speed and AF performance offered in cameras like the 7D and 1D. I am still waiting for the day Canon offers a true competitor to Nikon's fantastic D700.

 

[Buckster]

A lot of noise in the 7d? What world so you live in?

This one: http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/beyond-basics/219783-upgrade-lens-body-2.html#post2039151

Please take note of the fact that in his attempt to dazzle us all and put Derrel in his place, he's pushed the saturation UP and the pushed the noise DOWN in post processing. Now, WHY do you think he felt the need to do that? Take your time...

You are acting immature for your age assuming that picture by you name is you.

It is me in the photo, and yes I am old, and still, I'm not one of the people getting into these little slap fights twice a week over the 7D, defending it as though it's my deflowered sister's honor, pretending that what pops out of it is so awesome and pretty and saturated only to have someone discover that I pushed saturation levels up to get it that way, and doing my best to impugn the reputation of a knowlegable and helpful forum member in the process.

About derrels name. It was a typo. Wasn't a joke or anything.

But hey, as long as the joke's on Derrel, why correct it, right?

Glass over body.

Then go with a 60D and use the extra money for good glass.

5d is overkill for my needs.

You're simply not getting this. Get what you want. Love it. Marry it if it makes you happy. But don't pretend it's ALL THAT and lash out at anyone who doesn't agree, the way SOME FOLKS here do with Derrel when he dares to speak the truth about it. That's it in a nutshell.

I don't have the glass for it.

Then you don't have the glass for the 7D either, because it's IQ is not forgiving on that front. Or do you also disagree with EVERYONE who, from EXPERIENCE, says to get and use good glass with the 7D for exactly that reason?

So, you're going to plunk down a grand and a half on a body, then starve it from being able to do you any real good by putting sub-par glass on it. And you call that an upgrade? And because Derrel points that stuff out, he's nuts, and because I agree with him, I'm rude.

Yeah. Okay. Sure. Whatever.

 

[cfusionpm]

I feel Derrel's critisizms are unfair because he is only relaying whatever he reads on the internet rather than actually using the camera himself.

No, he's clearly not. He's got a wealth of knowledge gained from years associated with photographic equipment and contact with people in the business that's ongoing. He understands the issues associated with optics and physics and how they relate to this gear.

You don't have to actually own and eat burnt toast to see that it's burnt, and there's no reason to buy and shoot a camera that you can see is not up to a quality standard you consider acceptable - so he doesn't.

That's a fair point to make. But what irks me most is when he says things with such firm conviction that are easily disproven. A perfect example this thread here, where he conveniently ignores my post of examples openly addressing his concerns about that particular sensor, diffraction, and high ISO. I was actually looking forward to what he had to say.... Plus, to say the high ISO is terrible is kind of absurd to me. Terrible compared to a full frame? Sure, but it's absolute top of its class for crop sensors. Credit given where credit is due.

 

[Derrel]

Nice pistols Matt!

 

[Neil S.]

IQ is acceptable for these web images and small to medium sized prints after we work them in PS, as was done here, but there's a reason this isn't a $4000 body - it ain't got what it takes to be one, no matter how many amateurs think it's the greatest thing since somebody said, "what if we slice the bread BEFORE we sell it?"

Just sayin'...

Buckster,

You are right that its not a $4000 body, thank you for making us all aware of that.

What I want to know is why you are comparing it to one?

The 7D is a excellent camera for its price. Period.

Neil

 

[Neil S.]

Anyone who can save up $1700 or so to get the 7D can save a bit longer to get up another $700 and get a 5DMKII.

I bought my 7D because I had almost $2000 worth of EF-S lenses, that I didnt want to have to replace.

Have you considered that people may care about that?

 

[Buckster]

A point and shoot camera is excellent for it's price too. That alone doesn't make it desireable to run out and buy one.

My point, once again, is that while it is indeed a nice piece of gear, when problems with it are discussed, there's no need to behead the messenger for it nor to denigrate them, nor to bury one's head in the sand and pretend those problems don't exist at all, and then instead act like it's the be-all, end-all of products.

I don't personall think that's too much to expect from adults.

 

[Neil S.]

You folks seem to just want to see what you want to see and believe what you want to believe, while ignoring any evidence to the contrary.

I don't get it. :er:

I will explain why this is for you, since you don’t get it.

About 90% of the "evidence" that Derrel presents about the 7D is simply his opinion.

Also about 99% of what you are saying about the 7D is purely your opinion as well.

Why then should we "believe" your "evidence to the contrary"? Answer me this...

 

[Neil S.]

Saving up another 700 for a body isn't as east as it sounds. Especially for a college student who already budgeted for the 7d and already is paying a lot for it. 5d mk2 is just out of the question.

Your excuse is duly noted. I find it fairly weak though, tbh.

OK this is getting out of control.

"Oh, I'm sorry... Were you trying to make more poor excuses again? My bad."

You cant be serious with this garbage? Really?

Please DO NOT start flaming people based on their finincial situation. It is none of your business what other people can afford/what they decide to spend their money on.

This is 100% not the direction that this thread needs to go.

 

[Buckster]

Anyone who can save up $1700 or so to get the 7D can save a bit longer to get up another $700 and get a 5DMKII.

I bought my 7D because I had almost $2000 worth of EF-S lenses, that I didnt want to have to replace.

Have you considered that people may care about that?

Yeah, I have. I have a couple of them as well.

1. They were bought to fit my 20D and 40D bodies, and still work fine on the 40D (I sold the 20D), which is now a backup camera.

2. They hold their resale value just fine as long as they haven't been abused, so in short order they could be sold and the money applied to buy their equivalents in the full-frame world.

Again, this is simply more excuse-chatter to lead us away from the real issue I've been communicating: There is no need to shoot the messenger who discusses the real-world issues with a particular piece of gear, and bury our heads in the sand chanting, "no no no no - those issues don't exist! It's all a lie! He doesn't know what he's talking about! My camera is great - It's great it's great it's great IT'S GREAT!!!"