Using reversed lens

Adamneedsadvice · Jul 4, 2011

So let me get this straight, (mind you I'm newb to photography in general) I can take my 75-300mm zoom lens, combine that with my 50mm kit lens reverse and get high magnification macro??

If so, then the difference with that vs. the 100mm 2.8 macro lens I just bought is sharpness and bokeh??

molested_cow · Jul 4, 2011

Your macro lens has much better control in terms of DOF, with wider workable range. Image is much sharper too. The reverse lens photos I have tried all look like they are from some cheap point and shoot.

Now it may be a different story if you use your macro lens + a reversed 50mm. I've never tried that before but I've seen that kind of set up.

Overread · Jul 5, 2011

Depth of field won't be any different with a regular macro lens over reversed macro lens setups. The difference is that a regular macro lens gets a magnification of 1:1 without any additions and also retains the ability to focus from infinity to 1:1. There are many larger insects and subjects which don't warrant 1:1 and benefit from a little less magnification.

With the reversed lens setups the magnifications possible are far greater, but you've no infinity focusing and the range is often very limited. In addition some lens corrections are better with a dedicated macro lens over a reversed lens setup(eg sharpness, chromatic aberrations, flare etc...).

The only reason you get less depth of field with the reversed lens setups is because of their greater magnifications, which is inherant of pretty much any magnification gain method. In addition if you lose aperture controls and can't stop the lens down you've again lost some control and thus you're stuck shooting wide open, which of course does mean you have a thin depth of field to work with.

As for softness, even lenses like the MPE 65mm macro do soften as the magnification gains because most setups end up with the effective aperture reducing - by 5:1 you can be well into f64 or smaller even without changing the aperture blades on the lens itself
MPE 65mm test shot series - a set on Flickr
That set there would give you some idea how things change (with the MPE) as the magnification gains = it also shows the diffraction effect having more and more effect.

Edsport · Jul 5, 2011

I don't see the need for using 2 lenses. With just one of my lenses reversed i get lots of maginification if i zoom. It's like using a mircroscope. I have to zoom out so it's not magnified so much...

Arkanjel Imaging · Jul 5, 2011

Shooting at 1:1 is challanging in itself. Difficulty increases proportionally to magnification. You have to keep your expectations realistic.

NateS · Jul 5, 2011

Arkanjel Imaging said:
Trying to shoot handheld at 6:1 is futile. At those mags you need a good tripod, a lot of light, cable(less) shutter release and mirror lock-up to get anything good.

I strongly disagree with this. I am shooting in probably the 5:1 range with my bellows and reversed 50 and I don't use a tripod (good or not), nor do I have a cableless shutter release or mirror lockup. All I have is good light (SB-600) and something good to support against. I can get good shots in this range by bracing against a tree or other structure, or by kneeling down on the ground (when possible). I don't think I'm at quite 6:1 but I think I could do it at 6:1 as easily as I am doing it at 4:1 - 5:1.

Derrel · Jul 5, 2011

One of the biggest problems is lack of light to see and focus with, especially when using a "slow" zoom lens like an f/4~5.6 or an f/4.5~5.6 variable maximum aperture zoom lens plus a reversed lens on that...a strong flashlight aimed right at the subject area can really help you to literally SEE what you're trying to focus on, and then a much brighter burst of electronic flash is used to make the exposure. The flash is brighter than the flashlight, and so, overrides the continuous light.

I thought the formula for magnification was to take the foal length of the longer lens(the one mounted on the body), and then to divide the focal length of the shorter, reversed lens, into the longer lens's focal length, to get an approximate magnification factor. As in, say 70-300mm zoom lens shot at 300mm, divided by 50mm, equals 6, ie six times, or 6:1, ie six times greater than life-size.

NateS · Jul 5, 2011

Derrel said:
One of the biggest problems is lack of light to see and focus with, especially when using a "slow" zoom lens like an f/4~5.6 or an f/4.5~5.6 variable maximum aperture zoom lens plus a reversed lens on that...a strong flashlight aimed right at the subject area can really help you to literally SEE what you're trying to focus on, and then a much brighter burst of electronic flash is used to make the exposure. The flash is brighter than the flashlight, and so, overrides the continuous light.

I thought the formula for magnification was to take the foal length of the longer lens(the one mounted on the body), and then to divide the focal length of the shorter, reversed lens, into the longer lens's focal length, to get an approximate magnification factor. As in, say 70-300mm zoom lens shot at 300mm, divided by 50mm, equals 6, ie six times, or 6:1, ie six times greater than life-size.

I have heard of that calculation before, but there is something that always confused me with that. Wouldn't the max magnification of the longer lens play a factor? Lets say you take a Sigma 70-300 APO with a max magnification of 1:2 and reverse a 50 on it. Wouldn't that get more magnification than taking a 70-300 that has a max magnification of 1:4 or 1:5 (without the 50) and adding a reversed 50?

Light to focus with is something I'm struggling with on my bellows setup. I have virtually no visible light in the viewfinder at full extension even on a bright day (my diffuser blocks too much light). I'm thinking of rigging up some type of led lighting that I can flip on to help....for now, using Live View seems to help "find" the subject. For some reason, Live View gives me a much brighter view in these conditions than the viewfinder. I use LV to find the object, then click it off and use the viewfinder to focus (while faintly being able to see my subject). It's tough but it works decently.

Derrel · Jul 5, 2011

Live View can apply "gain", so yeah, it **is** brighter than the image seen by your eye through the viewfinder.

As far as the difference in magnification of the longer lens, I think that the most critical part of the equation with the long lens is its actual focal length, rather than the magnification is can reach at its minimum focusing distance. The magnification the 300mm lens is capable of is a combination of the focal length, and the minimum focusing distance; with the addition of a reversed lens on the front, the normal MFD of the long lens is effectively rendered MUCH, much shorter, so that virtually any telephoto lens will be WELL,WELL inside of its normal MFD of from 1.5 meters to 2.5 meters. Thus making most any 70-300, or 200, or 300mm lens into a lens that focuses super-close. I dunno...I've used the Nikkor 200mm f/4 Ai + 24mm Ai-S reversed...that's a pretty easy combo to put together. Fairly affordable, and the 200/4 Ai is built like a BRICK house!!!

NateS · Jul 5, 2011

Derrel said:
Live View can apply "gain", so yeah, it **is** brighter than the image seen by your eye through the viewfinder.

As far as the difference in magnification of the longer lens, I think that the most critical part of the equation with the long lens is its actual focal length, rather than the magnification is can reach at its minimum focusing distance. The magnification the 300mm lens is capable of is a combination of the focal length, and the minimum focusing distance; with the addition of a reversed lens on the front, the normal MFD of the long lens is effectively rendered MUCH, much shorter, so that virtually any telephoto lens will be WELL,WELL inside of its normal MFD of from 1.5 meters to 2.5 meters. Thus making most any 70-300, or 200, or 300mm lens into a lens that focuses super-close. I dunno...I've used the Nikkor 200mm f/4 Ai + 24mm Ai-S reversed...that's a pretty easy combo to put together. Fairly affordable, and the 200/4 Ai is built like a BRICK house!!!

Interesting thoughts. I have thought about reversing my 50mm f1.8 onto my Tamron 180mm macro, but have had a very hard time finding a 72mm - 52mm adapter (I guess I could have used multiple adapters, but I got tired of searching).

On the other hand, I just placed an ebay bid on an el-Nikkor 50mm f2.8 enlarger lens to reverse mount on my bellows. It should be good for 7x-8x (assuming I win the auction).

Nod · Jul 5, 2011

NateS----B&H has a 52 to 72 step up ring for $6.95 or the 72-52 if that's what your looking for.

If anybody wants, I can try to post some shots of how I drilled out the rear cap for the 50mm, & added a filter ring so I could put a cap on.

Edsport · Jul 5, 2011

NateS said:
Derrel said:

Live View can apply "gain", so yeah, it **is** brighter than the image seen by your eye through the viewfinder.

As far as the difference in magnification of the longer lens, I think that the most critical part of the equation with the long lens is its actual focal length, rather than the magnification is can reach at its minimum focusing distance. The magnification the 300mm lens is capable of is a combination of the focal length, and the minimum focusing distance; with the addition of a reversed lens on the front, the normal MFD of the long lens is effectively rendered MUCH, much shorter, so that virtually any telephoto lens will be WELL,WELL inside of its normal MFD of from 1.5 meters to 2.5 meters. Thus making most any 70-300, or 200, or 300mm lens into a lens that focuses super-close. I dunno...I've used the Nikkor 200mm f/4 Ai + 24mm Ai-S reversed...that's a pretty easy combo to put together. Fairly affordable, and the 200/4 Ai is built like a BRICK house!!!

Click to expand...

Interesting thoughts. I have thought about reversing my 50mm f1.8 onto my Tamron 180mm macro, but have had a very hard time finding a 72mm - 52mm adapter (I guess I could have used multiple adapters, but I got tired of searching).

On the other hand, I just placed an ebay bid on an el-Nikkor 50mm f2.8 enlarger lens to reverse mount on my bellows. It should be good for 7x-8x (assuming I win the auction).