Well Then, Shall We Just Let the Blind Lead the Blind?

[The_Traveler]

Notice that there is no response from the mods or the admins on any suggestions to make the site more efficient or better.

Do you guys, mods and admins, actually give a crap?

and if so, why isn't there even a response to the members who are willing to work on issues to make the site better?

 

[Geaux]

Whoa.....lol.

 

[mishele]

Tell us how you really feel!

 

[Derrel]

The_Traveler:

This thread came to its natural conclusion seven days ago. Accept that, and move on with life.

 

[Dao]

I join here since spring of 2008. And this is not the first time something like this happened before and after the board was sold. The mods simply cannot do much at all. Can't blame them because they don't own the board.

 

[honoryourlife]

Ok, so I've read through all 7 pages of this thread. If there is more pages by now, I haven't read them.

What a quality read. But I do have some issues that concern me.

A forum is a community of people that was/is used to discuss things, ask questions, learn and teach. So if a newb asks a question and posts a thread that has been posted time and time again, it doesn't necessarily mean they didn't use the search function. Perhaps they couldn't find the exact answer they were looking for, or simply couldn't understand what they read. So why get on them for it? Sure, tell them to use the search function, but be helpful about it. Being straight forward about it, is a good policy.

I am of the younger generation, but I'm not lazy when it comes to my passion. I do the research and put in the hard work.


I spend a lot of time on various photography forums, researching and sifting through hundreds of photography websites, photos, etc. I ask a lot of questions to pros and to beginners a like.

I spend a lot of time on www.thephotoforum.com, I don't post a lot. I mostly lurk and use the information I find and apply it to my studies and to my real life practice.

I also buy books on different photography subjects and read them extensively. I also read reviews, tips & hints, and camera/lens/flash/studio lighting manuals.

I also go by trial and error and try different things each time I go out on a shoot.

I also only shoot EXCLUSIVELY on the MANUAL setting, so I have complete control over every aspect of my photography.

I want to become a Master Photographer, not just some dude with a camera.

I don't edit my photos, everything can be done with the camera that is needed to get a great photo. But editing could be a useful tool for different/more artistic types of photography. Such as HDR.

I also try different types of photography to better myself in different areas and learn all I can about my passion.

I want to go somewhere with it!

So if I post a question or ask for C&C its because I'm willing to put in the hard work and research. Also to learn from those who have been where I am and have advanced greatly. I have advanced in my photography greatly by doing the research and hard work.

I ask a lot of questions and I learn a lot.

Just my piece, probably doesn't make much sense. But I want to be taken seriously and not like some newb that didn't do his homework, because thats not the case.

Just letting you all know that I'm not some arrogant, lil sh!t who doesn't put in the effort.

We're not all like that.

But anyways, have a good day. I look forward to conversing with everyone and learning from those that are willing to lend a hand!

-Ryan,

PS-Those who use facebook, check out my link at the bottom to see my work. You can see where I started and how I have progressed.

 

[Overread]

There's no need to shout.

Also we did respond - the upshot was we needed people willing to write the articles/tutorials in order to proceed. If people are willing to write such articles we can then move on from there for certain.

 

[RebeccaAPhotography]

Thinking about this stuff some more, it appears that to get better C&C on images posted, maybe we need to ask the OP (no, not Kundalini, but the many newbies that start posting 495 photos all at once and ask for C&C) some questions before we invest much energy in giving the C&C. Questions such as:
1) What was your vision when you made this image?
2) What did you intend the audience to see or feel?
3) How did you go about achieving your goal?
4) What area(s) do you feel you did not succeed in and are asking for help on?

What do you think? Would asking these four questions help the discussion, or kill it?

I am a newbie and one of the very first threads I wrote which I think was just saying Hi someone told me to do those things. I've put 10 pics up in 2 threads asking for CC. and I did exactly what you have written I've gotten some CC that has def helped me

 

[The_Traveler]

Griz's list is good but much too much, imo, to be included in an email for a newbie

I think the email can cover these few topics as links.

How to post pics
How to ask for a critique and How to give a critique
How to use the site search functions to find previous discussions on common topics.
How to use the internet to get answers to questions you don’t know how to ask

and a link to our tutorials thread also.

If we can get some assurance that will will actually happen from the tech people behiond the curtain, I will be happy to write the letter and to create/edit one of the linked topics.

Lew

It might take more than few hours for all the mods to get a look in - esp the admin ones who would be the ones to decide on the potential of a welcome pm concept. Regardless the production of a series of informative articles for newer photographers and the linking of them in a reference sticky would not be out of the question. The biggest problem is just getting the individual articles written up for a launch of the idea - and for that we will need members willing to write them.

this is your last post.
did you say something beyond that, laying out how we should proceed?

If you did, I missed it.

 

[Overread]

Ahh well I was waiting for more to show some interest/pm about writing articles.
Also I thought someone was starting a thread on that topic - though it appears not to be teh case.

In addition (having actually looked at our stickies) we do actually have one!
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...rum-photo-gallery/123160-tutorial-thread.html

In beginners right at the top. So I'd suggest for those interested teh first port of call is to check the existing sticky and threads and see what is needed. A few of the linked items are on other sites and would be better re-written and produced for TPF - whilst some others need updating and correcting.

 

[Bob in GV]

Again I'm still confused why people asking basic questions angers and infuriates so many of you->SNIP

I honestly think you are far,far,far too young to understand the answer; the answer to your question has already been provided above by Bitter Jeweler, and by Orion'sByte. Simply put Overread, your world view is that of somebody who was born DURING the internet age, and the world view of most of the "older" members is that of men and women who came of age well before the internet even existed. You see, we older folks grew up and came of age in an era when WORK and STUDY and EFFORT was required to gain information;you have come of age in the era where information is expected to be FREE. A goodly number of the younger people on this forum become upset or angry when they are not walked through their very basic questions as if they were a king or a queen. When people post a "RTFM-type" question, like, "How do I format my camera's memory card?", it shows they have not even read the camera's Quick-Start guide, but are instead, running here for hand-holding answer provision.

The fact that you say you are, "confused why people asking basic questions angers and infuriates so many of you," to use your own words, might possibly be because of your lack of understanding of the situation from the point of view of a 40- to 60- year-old person. You are missing the point, by a wide margin; it's not the ASKING of the question per se, but the RESPONSES where indignant huffiness, ad hominem attacks, and insults are hurtled back by a newbie who expected others to do his or her own WORK, and was unwilling to lift a Goddamned finger to better his or her understanding, and whose facile or over-broad question was met with an admonition to better-define the question, or to search the forum even a tiny bit, or to actually RTFM. Hey, I'm approaching 10,000 posts here; I HAVE ANSWERED THOUSANDS of questions, many of them the same ones,over and over. I have little problem with simple, honest questions, but when I see people come on here and then attack responders, and piss and moan about how "rude" people are when they give honest C&C, that's what's irritating. Not the questions, but the juvenile attitudes and responses that so,so many people given when they do not get the INSTANT help they think they are entitled to,in the form they wish, and at the level of breadth and depth the feel they are "entitled to".

Again...this is an example of how an entire generation of people, with access to a WORLD of information at their keyboard, seem to be totally fricking clueless about how to use Google or Ask Jeves or Bing or whatever, to provide them with the information they want. You own statement that Google requires you to know certain words before it spits out its search results is a good example of the excuse-making so typical of people in their 20's. Well boo-hoo-hoo, cry me a river; try walking 7/8 of a mile down to the local library in a rainy climate to get a photography magazine. I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for anybody who cries that Google makes him know words, and then spews forth summaries of eight hundred applicable articles located on-line, and instantly-printable. Instantly-printable information. Not a big deal to right?

Here is a little fact about my photo background: when I was in fifth and sixth grades, I hand-transcribed The Amateur Photographer's Handbook, in longhand, on notebook paper, using a bladder-fill fountain pen, and Schaefer's Skrip ink. I still have the notebook in my safe. It's not a skimpy little volume either.Amazon.com: The Amateur Photographer's Handbook (9780690057829): Aaron Sussman: Books

Derrel,
LOVE IT!

I was trying to get through this whole thread before commenting, because I do have strong feelings about the internet and forums.
I participate in other photo forums as well as kart racing forums and do get tired of the same questions over and over or questions that the poster should have been able to answer with a quick search. How I've handled it in other places differs from what I usually see here.
My normal response is to provide a link to the information or to the Google search results with a comment about it taking <10 seconds or <30 seconds or whatever to find the answer. Then I suggest trying it.
Let's face it, the internet was not invented so people could post horrible images of themselves taken from a high arms length vantage point in a mirror with some screwed up look on their face to "socialize" with their "friends." It was invented as a repository for information, and search engines were invented to give us access to that information.
That said, I am as you noted OLD, I'm semi-retired (involuntarily) from a 35+ year career in high-tech industries. I guarantee that I wouldn't have lasted a year by going to my peers asking basic questions. I had to research the question myself, then I could discuss it with the senior people around me to either add information or to clarify my understanding of the answer.
Finally, for the younger folks, the most important thing you'll ever learn in school is how to find information. If you don't get that one then I feel badly for you because there aren't many skilled labor type jobs out there in this country anymore.

My other pet peeve on photo forums is when people say they don't need to study the basics such as exposure, dof, etc. They own cameras that have all that programmed into them so the photographer only needs to concentrate on his/her "art."

p.s. I've read The Amateur Photographer's Handbook a few times, and still use it for questions I have about basic photographic information. Also use the Ansel series for research.

 

[The_Traveler]

Will the ADMIN include a basic instructions and directions in an email to every new registrant?

Otherwise we can rewrite to our heart's content but no one will read the stickies.

Lew

 

[Overread]

Yes yet no admin answer - though remember even if you give people a pm there is no guarantee that they will read it. In the end a tutorials sticky is only any good if its referred to and used by existing members as a resource to reference to for newer members.

 

[The_Traveler]

If there is a letter and its posted as a sticky then we can have a standard reply to all the silly redundant questions - refer to the PM you were sent or read that sticky in the intro forum.

One answer for many questions.
A nice way to say 'read the manual you were sent that is also posted here'

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Finally, for the younger folks, the most important thing you'll ever learn in school is how to find information. If you don't get that one then I feel badly for you because there aren't many skilled labor type jobs out there in this country anymore.

No matter how many times it is said,
It falls on deaf ears of the spoon fed.