What to charge?? - Starting out

[imagemaker46]

Tax laws being different worldwide. I charge sales tax on everything I sell, including my photography shoot fees within Canada, each tax is different based on province. Anything sold outside Canada has no sales tax added. The taxes are collected and then submitted back to the government, afterall the government doesn't make any money they just take it.

 

[CCericola]

Well since the OP is not Canadian I'm not sure where you are going with this.

 

[SayGee]

While I appreciate so much of the needed business info (taxes, etc) and would likely have been posting additional threads on topics like these and would love to continue to have the benefit of all your experience and wisdom, please realize that this specific thread was intended to focus on what I should do about photos I've already taken.


Obviously, I can't go to anyone and say "hey, remember those photos I took, well, I should've charged, for example, $x per hour and oh, by the way, sign this contract - retroactively"


That being said, in light of all the significant business issues you all have been kind enough to highlight, is there any reason NOT to:

1. set up a Zenfolio, or similar, web presence - start a portfolio and post the photos I've taken into PWP (password protected) galleries so theyre accessible to those to whom I have to provide them?

and if okay to do

2. Make the price per print at a level like $3-5 for 4x6

BUT

3. Provide a "coupon" for significant (and i do mean significant) discount for these specific photos that also will have a portion of proceeds go to the respective institutions.

Recognize that this is a fulfillment issue and a marketing issue.

My immediate goal on this is more to show I'm shifting or have shifted from "Aspiring Pro" to Pro than it is to make money on these specific photos - I just don't want to burn myself by completely giving the farm away nor do I want to piss people off with audacious pricing for something.

It's also a start for showcasing my work beyond showing someone photos on my iPad.

 

[spacefuzz]

While I appreciate so much of the needed business info (taxes, etc) and would likely have been posting additional threads on topics like these and would love to continue to have the benefit of all your experience and wisdom, please realize that this specific thread was intended to focus on what I should do about photos I've already taken.


Obviously, I can't go to anyone and say "hey, remember those photos I took, well, I should've charged, for example, $x per hour and oh, by the way, sign this contract - retroactively"


That being said, in light of all the significant business issues you all have been kind enough to highlight, is there any reason NOT to:

1. set up a Zenfolio, or similar, web presence - start a portfolio and post the photos I've taken into PWP (password protected) galleries so theyre accessible to those to whom I have to provide them?

and if okay to do

2. Make the price per print at a level like $3-5 for 4x6

BUT

3. Provide a "coupon" for significant (and i do mean significant) discount for these specific photos that also will have a portion of proceeds go to the respective institutions.

Recognize that this is a fulfillment issue and a marketing issue.

My immediate goal on this is more to show I'm shifting or have shifted from "Aspiring Pro" to Pro than it is to make money on these specific photos - I just don't want to burn myself by completely giving the farm away nor do I want to piss people off with audacious pricing for something.

It's also a start for showcasing my work beyond showing someone photos on my iPad.

Just keep in mind SayGee that people here are giving you really good advice about how to approach all of this stuff, just because you dont know it doesnt mean you dont need to. Seeking answers to the questions raised by others will lead you to the answers for what you asked.

1. no reason why not
2. seems too cheap to me

And this may be my opinion, but I do not think that charging for your photos makes you PRO. I think Pro is more of a skill level.

 

[KmH]

KMH is actually right this time...I took particular note of it because of how often he has been wrong about copyright and usage issues in the past.

I am about the only forum member who ever provides links to the pertinent copyright and usage information, and I do it routinely.

 

[imagemaker46]

Well since the OP is not Canadian I'm not sure where you are going with this.

Just speaking my professional point of view. You're right, it has absolutley no value to the OP other than she doesn't seem to have a "real" idea of the professional side of photography. There are photographers from all over the world that offer up opinions that have no influence on the topics and yet they add the information anyway. Information is information, regardless. There are Canadian amateurs on this forum that may be reading this thread and don't know anything about the Canadian sales tax regulations , now they do.

 

[Kerbouchard]

KMH is actually right this time...I took particular note of it because of how often he has been wrong about copyright and usage issues in the past.

I am about the only forum member who ever provides links to the pertinent copyright and usage information, and I do it routinely.

Yep, and the next line of the quote that you snipped acknowledged that you routinely post links...it also stated that you must have finally gotten around to reading some of them.

 

[CCericola]

Well since the OP is not Canadian I'm not sure where you are going with this.

Just speaking my professional point of view. You're right, it has absolutley no value to the OP other than she doesn't seem to have a "real" idea of the professional side of photography. There are photographers from all over the world that offer up opinions that have no influence on the topics and yet they add the information anyway. Information is information, regardless. There are Canadian amateurs on this forum that may be reading this thread and don't know anything about the Canadian sales tax regulations , now they do.

Ok, Ok I see what you mean now I get why you posted that.
Sometimes I get what my husband calls "Blonde Moments"

 

[SayGee]

Just keep in mind SayGee that people here are giving you really good advice about how to approach all of this stuff, just because you dont know it doesnt mean you dont need to. Seeking answers to the questions raised by others will lead you to the answers for what you asked.

Thanks, spacefuzz - I think I've been pretty consistent in expressing both my appreciation for all that advice, and my recognizing/acknowledging that need to have it shared with me.

I hope you and others don't misinterpret my attempts to get immediate actionable guidance that directly addresses my highlighted issue.

1. no reason why not
2. seems too cheap to me

And this may be my opinion, but I do not think that charging for your photos makes you PRO. I think Pro is more of a skill level.

And again, thanks for the direct response to my specific questions - if anyone else is willing to chime in, please do.

BTW - I agree that Pro is skill-based, but at the end of the day, Pros get paid. My skill is nowhere near where I strive for it to be or where it will be 6 years or even 6 months from now. But i know it's my time now. It's all a journey, right?

So exciting!

Sent from my iPad using PhotoForum

 

[imagemaker46]

Well since the OP is not Canadian I'm not sure where you are going with this.

Just speaking my professional point of view. You're right, it has absolutley no value to the OP other than she doesn't seem to have a "real" idea of the professional side of photography. There are photographers from all over the world that offer up opinions that have no influence on the topics and yet they add the information anyway. Information is information, regardless. There are Canadian amateurs on this forum that may be reading this thread and don't know anything about the Canadian sales tax regulations , now they do.

Ok, Ok I see what you mean now I get why you posted that.
Sometimes I get what my husband calls "Blonde Moments"

No worries

 

[bentcountershaft]

Sales tax laws can definitely be confusing from place to place, no doubt about that. You can't get away with the service charges instead of selling goods to avoid sales tax in my state because those are taxable too here thanks to the car dealers. Labor isn't subject to sales tax here but I think you would have to be considered a contractor doing work for hire and not own any of the images that way, which I wouldn't recommend.

 

[Patrice]

SayGee,

Have you asked the school if they would give you the work if you wanted to get paid? Could be the school was grateful for the freebee but in no way would they fork over cash for the same in the future. Schools, social organizations, seniors clubs, etc... from around here really like anybody who provides free services to them, but they won't pay a red penny if they had to. They'd simply go ask for another volunteer and take whatever comes out.

As to you price for prints of photos already taken, if you can recover your variable costs (ie: paper, ink, delivery...) at $3 per print then go right ahead if that is ok with you and if anybody wants to buy them.

 

[SayGee]

INTERESTING UPDATE

Earlier today I decided I'm definitely setting up Zenfolio tonight and over the next few days. Though how much per print I hadn't yet decided completely.

Using Zenfolio for order fulfillment takes care of the issue of sales tax. Also, once I make a minimum of $600 within a given tax year, they will generate a 1099 for me as required by the IRS.

Of course, that only applies to what I make via the Zenfolio website. I will speak with my accountant about all of this.

Insurance, though, that one could be a bit trickier. Let's see - Equipment, etc could either be a separate policy or could be on a rider to my homeowners policy, right?
Can liability be added there too?

I thought I could address this in more detail maybe over the weekend or next week. But......

Meanwhile, after an event with my kids, this evening, one of the moms who's a friendly acquaintance, asked me if I'd come and take photos of her kids. "I'll pay you for the photos - I ordered clothes for the kids ".

NOW - my forum community - if you were ME - what would you have done and what would you do now and tomorrow?

Would you have said.
I'd love to take the photos but I'm not established yet so you should go to someone else.

OR

Would you have said:
I'd love to take the photos but I'm not established yet so I'll just charge you my cost for your prints.

OR

Would you have answered as I did?
here's how the rest of the conversation went:

I smiled and said "I'd love to, although I don't just get paid per photo"

Her: "okay. How much?"

Me: "Let's talk tomorrow [while our kids are at an activity together] about what you'd like, since time is a major factor in determining my fee. "

Her: "sounds good. I really want to do this soon"

Me: "this weekend is supposed to be sunny and in the 60's - great fall weather for photos"

Her: "I'll talk to you tomorrow. I have to see if I can find the clothes I ordered from another store so I can have them on time!"

Me: "sounds great. See you tomorrow"

Me: come home, put kids to sleep. Eat something. Post this on here.

Now off to check for the umpteenth time what fees and types of packages are typical around here.

By the way, this mom also said she'd easily spend $10 on a 5x7 of a really good random photo of her kid(s) taken at school.

So - here's where I am now. Be kind, but please suggest practical & actionable next steps that I should take over the next few days.

Thanks!!!

 

[SayGee]

SayGee,

Have you asked the school if they would give you the work if you wanted to get paid? Could be the school was grateful for the freebee but in no way would they fork over cash for the same in the future. Schools, social organizations, seniors clubs, etc... from around here really like anybody who provides free services to them, but they won't pay a red penny if they had to. They'd simply go ask for another volunteer and take whatever comes out.

No, I haven't and only in part for the exact reason you mentioned. I love my children. Even before becoming a mom, I always hoped that when I became one, I would be able to be a SAHM so I could be hands-on with them and be involved in the school, events, field trips, fundraisers - all of it. I wanted to make a positive difference in the mini-community my children would be (and are now) part of.

They and I were lucky I've been able to do this since each of their births and we have all benefited greatly from this.

My whole life, I've loved snapping photos. I still have dozens of 'developed photos of fireworks' from my instamatic from when I was a little kid. They're blackish/gray with maybe a teeny tiny spec of red from the fireworks. I doubt anyone but me could identify them.

I have boxes upon boxes of photos I took all through growing up into adulthood before my first digital camera. I can't tell you most of the names of the people I took photos of, but they're mostly candids of people I went to school or camp with. I always loved taking photos with my camera. I just never learned anything about photography.

My very first post of this thread should fill in the gap to where I am now.

I absolutely love taking candids, etc and have always loved taking photos of kids at events and parties.

Well, now I have to re-enter the income producing workforce. Okay, fine. They say " If you love what you do, you never have to work a day in your life."

I love the job I've been doing.
I also love my camera and my iMac (doing digital design)

Taking photos at the school keeps me and my children happy, satisfying two of my goals.
The fact "they" won't pay is not the concern. My goal is to continue developing the trusting relationship we have and along with the PTO they let my photos even be shown to all the parents, having them know which were taken, specifically by me.

It only makes sense that I'm not charging the school for my time and it would make sense to all of them too. PTO members are volunteers - many of whom work hard every day, doing the very same things they get paid to do in the workforce.

If they always see me with my camera and they see and like the results and since they already know the trust hurdles of the school even allowing me to take the photos I've already taken - I'd like to think that I am the photographer they will want to hire for their own events.

The website will show them more than just what they know i'm taking in the classrooms or on the fields. And of course create the opportunity to recover some costs.

It's a loss leader. One I'm happy to have, as long as I can afford to keep. (scroll down for my last post "Interesting update")

As to you price for prints of photos already taken, if you can recover your variable costs (ie: paper, ink, delivery...) at $3 per print then go right ahead if that is ok with you and if anybody wants to buy them.

Sent from my iPad using PhotoForum

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Yes you can get an Umbrella $1 million liability policy for you/your business, bundled with your home owners, auto, etc. For about $250 to $500 a year.