What would be a better use of $500-$600?

[TheBiles]

As always...........WHAT DO YOU SHOOT ?

Mainly shots of my 2 year old in action and outdoors (both landscapes and some macro stuff), which is exactly why I was wanting a high-speed, wide-angle lens.

I would suggest a flash then upgrade the lens then a diff body down the road...

For 50-200$ you can easily pick up a used flash(its a must) off craigslist and still have 350-500 to spend on a lens
Also add a inexpensive and awesome 50mm 1.8 lens which can be picked up for 70-120$ used and you would still have 200-300$ left for other toys or perhaps another fast zoom lens or save to upgrade the body.

Are those really cheap ($100-$250) wide angle lenses very good, though? I saw a lot of the reviews complaining about their build quality, so that kind of worried me.

Also, everyone talking about flashes: I know absolutely nothing about them because I usually prefer to go without one, so please feel free to enlighten me.

 

[subscuck]

People often upgrade from one camera with kit lens(es) to another with kit lens(es) and see very little difference in IQ, and still can't get the shots they want. In addition to spending money on better glass, which I recommend, I would also spend some time reading up on the mechanics of photography. Google "exposure triangle" to learn how aperture, shutter speed and ISO work together. Understanding that, you'll see why a kit lens on a better body, especially if you're shooting in auto, still won't get you the shots you want. Your XSi is still a serviceable camera and will surprise you with better glass and some understanding of the photographic process.

As far as the 50 1.8, you could go that route, but I wouldn't recommend it given your budget. For most people, it's the first fast prime they buy (because of price) and they love it because of what it allows them to do that their slow, kit lens zoom won't. However, it's got serious limitations. AF is slow, loud and clunky. In low light it often won't AF at all, but instead will hunt and hunt til it gives up. 50mm is also a little tight indoors on a crop body. I'd recommend either the Canon 35mm 2.0, or the Sigma 30 1.4. Both fall into your budget, both are better lenses all around than the 50 1.8, and on a crop body will give "normal perspective". If you want to go the 50mm route, than either the Canon or Sigma 50 1.4 would be my suggestion.

 

[Stryker]

Why get a wide 28 when you are already covered with your 18-55? If you want a wide lens and since you have a cropped body, go for the 10-22 UWA however...
I would go with Bitter Jeweler and Ginu's suggestion. Get a flash. The body would come later. Maybe save on a 7D...

 

[Ginu]

As always...........WHAT DO YOU SHOOT ?

Mainly shots of my 2 year old in action and outdoors (both landscapes and some macro stuff), which is exactly why I was wanting a high-speed, wide-angle lens.

I would suggest a flash then upgrade the lens then a diff body down the road...

For 50-200$ you can easily pick up a used flash(its a must) off craigslist and still have 350-500 to spend on a lens
Also add a inexpensive and awesome 50mm 1.8 lens which can be picked up for 70-120$ used and you would still have 200-300$ left for other toys or perhaps another fast zoom lens or save to upgrade the body.

Are those really cheap ($100-$250) wide angle lenses very good, though? I saw a lot of the reviews complaining about their build quality, so that kind of worried me.

Also, everyone talking about flashes: I know absolutely nothing about them because I usually prefer to go without one, so please feel free to enlighten me.

Well a 50mm on a crop body is not wide and yes you could call the built as being cheap as it is made of plastic and very basic and that's why its a cheap lens but far better than the "kit lens" which the camera comes with. A wide lens on a 1.6 crop sensor would be something in the range of 12 - 30 and you already have the kit 18-55.
In regards to the build of the lens, most lens are plastic unless you start dropping tons of cash on professional glass which will most likely not work on a Rebel, so I would not worry much about that.

You want wide and you want macro... these are two extremes of the spectrum unfortunately.
A high speed lens which can do it all doesn't exit and it would be very pricey if it did. There is the jack of all trade lens like the Canon EF-S 18-200 which would almost replace your existing two lenses.

Photography is all about the light and that's why we pay big $ for better glass so a good cheap alternative is to have a good light source... hence my suggestion for a flash. Ambient light is not always in your favor and in-time you can learn how to properly use a flash.

People often upgrade from one camera with kit lens(es) to another with kit lens(es) and see very little difference in IQ, and still can't get the shots they want. In addition to spending money on better glass, which I recommend, I would also spend some time reading up on the mechanics of photography. Google "exposure triangle" to learn how aperture, shutter speed and ISO work together. Understanding that, you'll see why a kit lens on a better body, especially if you're shooting in auto, still won't get you the shots you want. Your XSi is still a serviceable camera and will surprise you with better glass and some understanding of the photographic process.

As far as the 50 1.8, you could go that route, but I wouldn't recommend it given your budget. For most people, it's the first fast prime they buy (because of price) and they love it because of what it allows them to do that their slow, kit lens zoom won't. However, it's got serious limitations. AF is slow, loud and clunky. In low light it often won't AF at all, but instead will hunt and hunt til it gives up. 50mm is also a little tight indoors on a crop body. I'd recommend either the Canon 35mm 2.0, or the Sigma 30 1.4. Both fall into your budget, both are better lenses all around than the 50 1.8, and on a crop body will give "normal perspective". If you want to go the 50mm route, than either the Canon or Sigma 50 1.4 would be my suggestion.

I agree with you in regards to learning the exposure triangle but keep in mind the camera which the OP is using is a entry level Rebel so there will be limitations.

As far as my 50mm 1.8 goes I find it a little on the loud side due to the internal focusing motor, but definitely not slow on my D90 (I've had both 50mm 1.8 D and the older 50mm 1.8 AF). Not sure if a cheapish 50mm will work on a rebel as it might require an internal focusing motor...so check into this before buying. I know the lower end Nikon DSLR's do not have an internal AF motor so I can only assume Canon would be the same. The reason why I suggest the 50mm 1.8 is because of its price, sure the 35 is nicer on a crop body and a 50mm 1.4 opens up even more, but the price also doubles... the 50mm 1.8 is the best bang for the buck.

Personally I tend to stick with Nikon lens as the resale factor is much greater than a Tokina/Sigma etc. so my suggestion is to stick with Canon lens until the OP understands this photo hobby to a better degree.

In regards to the AF in dark... what lens doesn't search in low light conditions? I've taken pictures in complete darkness and I didn't experience this issue with a 50mm lens, or at least to the point when it bothered me.

 

[TheBiles]

People often upgrade from one camera with kit lens(es) to another with kit lens(es) and see very little difference in IQ, and still can't get the shots they want. In addition to spending money on better glass, which I recommend, I would also spend some time reading up on the mechanics of photography. Google "exposure triangle" to learn how aperture, shutter speed and ISO work together. Understanding that, you'll see why a kit lens on a better body, especially if you're shooting in auto, still won't get you the shots you want. Your XSi is still a serviceable camera and will surprise you with better glass and some understanding of the photographic process.

As far as the 50 1.8, you could go that route, but I wouldn't recommend it given your budget. For most people, it's the first fast prime they buy (because of price) and they love it because of what it allows them to do that their slow, kit lens zoom won't. However, it's got serious limitations. AF is slow, loud and clunky. In low light it often won't AF at all, but instead will hunt and hunt til it gives up. 50mm is also a little tight indoors on a crop body. I'd recommend either the Canon 35mm 2.0, or the Sigma 30 1.4. Both fall into your budget, both are better lenses all around than the 50 1.8, and on a crop body will give "normal perspective". If you want to go the 50mm route, than either the Canon or Sigma 50 1.4 would be my suggestion.

I actually just finished two photography books (Understanding Exposure and The Photographer's Eye). This is actually the first time I've heard of Sigma lenses. I figured I was limited to Canon's EF(-S) lineup, so that's what I had been basing all of my prices off, but it's good to have more options.

Why get a wide 28 when you are already covered with your 18-55? If you want a wide lens and since you have a cropped body, go for the 10-22 UWA however...
I would go with Bitter Jeweler and Ginu's suggestion. Get a flash. The body would come later. Maybe save on a 7D...

The 18-55 is a very slow lens, and it's also not of a very high quality since it was bundled with the body. I was looking for a very fast prime for indoor shots and low-light conditions.

Well a 50mm on a crop body is not wide and yes you could call the built as being cheap as it is made of plastic and very basic and that's why its a cheap lens but far better than the "kit lens" which the camera comes with. A wide lens on a 1.6 crop sensor would be something in the range of 12 - 30 and you already have the kit 18-55.
In regards to the build of the lens, most lens are plastic unless you start dropping tons of cash on professional glass which will most likely not work on a Rebel, so I would not worry much about that.

You want wide and you want macro... these are two extremes of the spectrum unfortunately.
A high speed lens which can do it all doesn't exit and it would be very pricey if it did. There is the jack of all trade lens like the Canon EF-S 18-200 which would almost replace your existing two lenses.

Photography is all about the light and that's why we pay big $ for better glass so a good cheap alternative is to have a good light source... hence my suggestion for a flash. Ambient light is not always in your favor and in-time you can learn how to properly use a flash.

I agree with you in regards to learning the exposure triangle but keep in mind the camera which the OP is using is a entry level Rebel so there will be limitations.

As far as my 50mm 1.8 goes I find it a little on the loud side due to the internal focusing motor, but definitely not slow on my D90 (I've had both 50mm 1.8 D and the older 50mm 1.8 AF). Not sure if a cheapish 50mm will work on a rebel as it might require an internal focusing motor...so check into this before buying. I know the lower end Nikon DSLR's do not have an internal AF motor so I can only assume Canon would be the same. The reason why I suggest the 50mm 1.8 is because of its price, sure the 35 is nicer on a crop body and a 50mm 1.4 opens up even more, but the price also doubles... the 50mm 1.8 is the best bang for the buck.

Personally I tend to stick with Nikon lens as the resale factor is much greater than a Tokina/Sigma etc. so my suggestion is to stick with Canon lens until the OP understands this photo hobby to a better degree.

In regards to the AF in dark... what lens doesn't search in low light conditions? I've taken pictures in complete darkness and I didn't experience this issue with a 50mm lens, or at least to the point when it bothered me.

I've been using my telephoto for most macro shots, and it gets the job done fairly well. I'm not looking for a macro lens at this time. Could you suggest a flash? As I stated before, I've never used an external flash, and I don't even know what to look for.

Also, is there any reason to avoid the non-Canon lenses other than the resale value of the off-brands? Is there a quality difference there that I should be aware of? There's just over a $100 price difference in the Sigma 30 f/1.4 and the Canon 28 f/1.8, but if the quality is a factor then that money would be well spent.

 

[PJL]

Also, is there any reason to avoid the non-Canon lenses other than the resale value of the off-brands? Is there a quality difference there that I should be aware of? There's just over a $100 price difference in the Sigma 30 f/1.4 and the Canon 28 f/1.8, but if the quality is a factor then that money would be well spent.

Third-party lenses don't usually have the sharpness of the equivalent camera-brand lens (there are exceptions, however), can have slower focusing than their Canon equivalent, and sometimes have communication problems between the lens and body (for example, a third party lens may not be able to give you full E-TTL II functioning if you use an external flash unit). I'm sure if you researched reviews of both of those lenses you'd get a good idea of what other people have experienced.

Here's a great write-up on Canon flash units.

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/#whichflash

If you can swing it, a Canon 430 EX II would be a great all-purpose flash for taking family photos, especially indoors. I think the 580 EX would be overkill in your situation.

 

[Village Idiot]

Read this:
Strobist: Lighting 101

Buy flash.

Shoot better.

 

[mikehaugen]

most lens are plastic unless you start dropping tons of cash on professional glass which will most likely not work on a Rebel, so I would not worry much about that.

Why wouldn't professional glass work on a rebel?

 

[mikehaugen]

Not sure if a cheapish 50mm will work on a rebel as it might require an internal focusing motor...so check into this before buying. I know the lower end Nikon DSLR's do not have an internal AF motor so I can only assume Canon would be the same.

All canon ef lenses have their own focusing motors, As far as I know there isn't a canon body out there with it's own focusing motor. There may have been one toward the end of the "fd" era, but I don't think so. I guess it's good and bad, you know that all canon eos cameras work with all ef lenses and you know that the lenses have their own focusing motors, but the bodies are not backwards compatible with non-ef lenses without an adapter.

 

[Ginu]

most lens are plastic unless you start dropping tons of cash on professional glass which will most likely not work on a Rebel, so I would not worry much about that.

Why wouldn't professional glass work on a rebel?

Sorry it was late and I was tired. Rebels can use EF and EF-S lens.

 

[Ginu]

I've been using my telephoto for most macro shots, and it gets the job done fairly well. I'm not looking for a macro lens at this time. Could you suggest a flash? As I stated before, I've never used an external flash, and I don't even know what to look for.

Also, is there any reason to avoid the non-Canon lenses other than the resale value of the off-brands? Is there a quality difference there that I should be aware of? There's just over a $100 price difference in the Sigma 30 f/1.4 and the Canon 28 f/1.8, but if the quality is a factor then that money would be well spent.

Canon lenses are typically sharper than the competitors, however there are instances where a Sigma/Tamron/Tokina lens can be better and cheaper than the Canon. Just need to read reviews on what you're buying or try the lens in a store and see what suits you best.
In regards to a flash, I am not familiar with Canon flashes so perhaps some Canon users can answer this.

Here is a great writeup on Canon for beginners
And a quote from that site in regards to "beginner lens"

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]"What’s a good beginner lens?[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]This really depends on your photographic goals. Here are some possibilities to consider.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]But before you rush out and buy a lens based on these suggestions I strongly recommend trying out the lenses you’re interested in before you buy. Most decent stores won’t mind if you go in with your camera and roll of film or an empty memory card and take a few shots of the shop using a couple of lenses. (be sure to use a tripod or rest the camera on a sturdy surface and use identical settings for each lens) They might grumble a bit, but how else can you decide whether a given lens is good for you? Certainly you don’t want to be trusting the advice of random people on the Internet![/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Cheap prime lens.
If your primary objective is to learn more about basic photography skills and take photos of reasonable quality then your first lens should probably be a Canon 50mm 1.8 lens. This is a very fast fixed focal length lens. But since it’s technically easy to build a 50mm lens, it’s also astoundingly cheap. New Canon 50mm 1.8 mark II lenses can be bought for as little as $75 US.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Such a lens, while cheap, takes sharp clear photos and can be used in extremely dim environments without the harsh light of a flash because it’s so fast. So the photos you take with it will look better than those from a typical point and shoot both because they’re sharp and because you’re not bathing your photos in ugly glaring light from a camera’s built-in flash. Natural light photographs almost always look better than on-camera flash.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Of course, since it’s a prime lens you will have to walk around more to get a lot of shots framed right. And some wide-angle or telephoto-type shots you won’t be able to get at all, so those are the obvious disadvantages.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Note that Canon have made two versions of the 50mm 1.8 lens. The older lens has no Roman numeral designation and has a metal mount, a distance scale and an optional clip-on hood. The mark II version has a plastic mount, no distance scale and a clumsy screw-on optional hood. If you can find an original lens it’s probably worth going for - it costs as much used as the mark II does new, but is of slightly tougher build quality. Optically the two lenses are basically identical. Canon also sell the 50mm 1.4 USM, which is optically a bit faster and uses a USM drive with FTM, but it costs considerably more than the 50mm 1.8.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] However, if you use a digital camera with a cropped sensor (basically any EOS digital camera except for a few top models) then the 50mm might be a less useful choice, since it essentially behaves like a longer telephoto on such models, and won’t let you get in much of a scene. In such cases a 28mm 2.8 might be a better option.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Cheap zoom lens.
If you value convenience and image quality is not a priority then an inexpensive zoom lens, such as the kit lenses sold with consumer-level cameras, is fine. However I don’t recommend most of these lenses (the “cheapies” in category 1 above) to anyone who’s at all interested in photographic image quality. The one exception is probably the EF-S 18-55 II kit lens included with affordable digital cameras. This lens, while incredibly cheap, is actually not too bad if you factor in the low cost. Especially if you stop down to f/8 or so when using it.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]So what if you’re on a budget but really want the convenience of a zoom? Well, you could pick up a used zoom lens of an older generation, many of which have quite decent optics for the price. For example, you could buy a used metal lens mount 28-70 3.5-4.5 II for nearly the same price as a new 28-80 all-plastic cheapie. If you want a lens with silent-focussing USM you could consider the metal lens mount 28-80 3.5-5.6 USM (not one of the later plastic lens mount models with Roman numerals), which has similar build quality to the 28-105 3.5-4.5 USM. Two other reasonable but discontinued lenses available inexpensively on the used market include the 35-135 4.0-5.6 USM and the older 35-105 3.5-4.5. The main drawback is that these lenses aren’t really wide enough to be useful on cropped digital SLRs.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] In short, you don’t have to put up with shopping mall quality just because you’re on a tight budget so long as you’re willing to consider used lenses.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Then, as you use your camera over time, start reviewing your photos to see what focal lengths you find yourself using a lot. And what focal ranges you find yourself wanting to use. Are you always shooting portrait length photos? Are you always wishing you could go wider? Then you’ll know where to invest your money next.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Mid-priced zoom lens.
If you have a slightly larger budget, a mid-priced zoom (category 2) is worth considering. For example, two popular Canon zoom lenses are the 28-105 3.5-4.5 USM and the 24-85 3.5-4.5 USM. Both are reasonably sturdy lenses with decent though not outstanding optical quality. They feature fast and silent ring USM autofocus motors. They’re more expensive and heavier than cheap zooms, but most people find the tradeoff worth it.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Of the two lenses the former has a bit more reach and so is good for isolating objects or for doing simple portrait work. The latter has less reach but is considerably wider (there’s a surprisingly big difference in coverage area between a 24mm lens and a 28mm lens) and so is popular for travel photos. The 24-85 is also a good match for cropped digital sensors."[/SIZE][/FONT]
​

 

[RedWylder]

Get that ygungo (someone help me with spelling?) flash for $40 and get the lens too.

*EDIT* Ah! here we go:
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...forum-photo-gallery/239165-yongnuo-flash.html

 

[TheBiles]

Question about the Canon Speedlite 430EX II: I know it can be used as a "slave" unit, but what exactly does that entail (still reading the Flash 101 blog)? Will I be able to trigger it remotely without a radio sensor or being tethered to the camera? For example, if I want to just set the flash to the side of my subject, will I be able to trigger it when I shoot without any kind of extra equipment?

 

[Stryker]

The Canon 430 EXII may be used as a slave of the 580 EXII but it cannot be triggered off cam alone. You have to have an off cam trigger like a Pocket Wizard or Flash Wave or the cheaper alternative would be a Canon off camera shoe cable or cord OC-E3.

 

[TheBiles]

The Canon 430 EXII may be used as a slave of the 580 EXII but it cannot be triggered off cam alone. You have to have an off cam trigger like a Pocket Wizard or Flash Wave or the cheaper alternative would be a Canon off camera shoe cable or cord OC-E3.

I'm guessing that goes for the 580 as well, right? Those wireless triggers (that support TTL) sure are pricey!