Where should the line be drawn with child photographs?

[CThomas817]

Not trying to start a heated discussion but would appreciate professional opinions...

I recently created some images of a toddler that were received well by most but disapproved by a few. The subject happened to be my own child, so in terms of being protective, not only my professional, but personal, interests are at heart. She is 24 months old and the images were of her sitting in a large gathering of tulle. She has a diaper and diaper cover on (they were covered by the tulle anyway), but she is not wearing a shirt. To me, she is still a baby, and this did not cross my mind that it could potentially be inappropriate. I felt that the photos tastefully conveyed the idea of purity and innocence, as is often the goal of child photographs, but someone mentioned to me the idea that child protective services would have an issue with this.

Let me preface my concern by saying that I am also a psychologist who specializes in children. I have worked with the department of children and families as part of my job for over 8 years and, aforementioned, this did not seem inappropriate and was certainly not intended for any other use than art, this is my child who I love with every fiber of my being for Pete's sake.

I would absolutley agree that for an older child, maybe even at age 4, this would be teetering on a very thin line, but at barely 2?

What are your thoughts on this? I will share one of the images with any potentially "suggestive" areas covered.

TIA

As a psychologist, you may know this old joke: A boy is taken to a psychologist because his parents are convinced he is obsessed with sex. The psychologist presents the boy with a series of Rorschach cards, and in each case the boy sees something sexually arousing in them. The psychologist reports to the parents that he agrees that the boy is obsessed with sex, whereupon the boy shouts, “I’m obsessed with sex?! What about you, showing me all those dirty pictures?”

Relevant example

 

[DanOstergren]

To you they're innocent, but they're also personal, and in my modest opinion belong in your home, in a photo album or frame, but not on the internet for the world to see and abuse.

This. I don't find them offensive or provocative but I don't understand why you would want to share those with the public.

I am showcasing my work and ability, not my daughter. I am a child photographer, and these images are part of my portfolio. The intent of sharing the photos is to show my scope to potential clients who would like similar images of their children, just like any photographer shares sample images of the genre in which they work. My (public) website is filled with images of babies and children that I have worked with. Countless babies are topless in a cake smash session. Many inspirational photographers that I follow have shared images they have created with their children. Look at Lisa Holloway. She made a name for herself by taking and sharing beautiful photos of her children.

Could I have popped a shirt on her? Sure. But I wasn't thinking there was anything wrong with a shirtless baby.

That's fine, but did you not ask for input?

I think you did:

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[DanOstergren]

Offensive? No. CPS wouldn't take issue with this.

But to go off your idea that this is questionable for older children but ok for younger: I think most adults (men and women) look back at their shirtless childhood photos (because we ALL have them!) with fond memories. We're not offended by them or weirded out by them. Just think, 15 years from now, will you be comfortable showing these photos to your daughter? I assume your answer is yes, but just some food for thought as to when the "shirtless cut off age" should be.

Gorgeous images.

Thank you, and a good way to think about it. At this age, absolutley I would be comfortable showing her as a teen or adult. I have worked with children for many years and I feel like that cutoff lands right about when the child him or herself becomes uncomfortable with those areas not being concealed. At this age, my daughter could run around the beach with no diaper on without a care in the world, but my son (almost 4) would be very embarrassed.

The detail here that should also be considered is that they're on a publicly viewable website on the internet. I'm not saying that I think you did anything wrong or inappropriate, but by putting them on the internet you are also setting the stage to allow others to abuse the photos.

 

[CThomas817]

To you they're innocent, but they're also personal, and in my modest opinion belong in your home, in a photo album or frame, but not on the internet for the world to see and abuse.

This. I don't find them offensive or provocative but I don't understand why you would want to share those with the public.

I am showcasing my work and ability, not my daughter. I am a child photographer, and these images are part of my portfolio. The intent of sharing the photos is to show my scope to potential clients who would like similar images of their children, just like any photographer shares sample images of the genre in which they work. My (public) website is filled with images of babies and children that I have worked with. Countless babies are topless in a cake smash session. Many inspirational photographers that I follow have shared images they have created with their children. Look at Lisa Holloway. She made a name for herself by taking and sharing beautiful photos of her children.

Could I have popped a shirt on her? Sure. But I wasn't thinking there was anything wrong with a shirtless baby.

That's fine, but did you not ask for input?

I think you did:

What are your thoughts on this?

Of course I did and I appreciate the feedback, but you said that you didn't understand why I would share this publicly. I was simply explaining why. It's a work sample.

 

[AlanKlein]

If it bothers you, stop doing it.

Alan, I am not asking for emotional support. I am asking if I can get into legal trouble.

Your original post never mentioned legal trouble. You were asking for personal feelings and opinions, emotional support, from others regarding the appropriateness of the photos being posted publicly. You seem to be very confused and at odds with yourself because you are listening to others and using their opinions to justify something you're uncomfortable with. If you were comfortable, you wouldn't have started the thread. That's why I suggested you do what your internal compass is telling you to do.

 

[CThomas817]

To you they're innocent, but they're also personal, and in my modest opinion belong in your home, in a photo album or frame, but not on the internet for the world to see and abuse.

This. I don't find them offensive or provocative but I don't understand why you would want to share those with the public.

I am showcasing my work and ability, not my daughter. I am a child photographer, and these images are part of my portfolio. The intent of sharing the photos is to show my scope to potential clients who would like similar images of their children, just like any photographer shares sample images of the genre in which they work. My (public) website is filled with images of babies and children that I have worked with. Countless babies are topless in a cake smash session. Many inspirational photographers that I follow have shared images they have created with their children. Look at Lisa Holloway. She made a name for herself by taking and sharing beautiful photos of her children.

Could I have popped a shirt on her? Sure. But I wasn't thinking there was anything wrong with a shirtless baby.

That's fine, but did you not ask for input?

I think you did:

What are your thoughts on this?

Of course I did and I appreciate the feedback, but you said that you didn't understand why I would share this publicly. I was simply explaining why. It's a work sample.

I do first birthday cake smashes where most babies are topless. I have to share some of those photos in order to attract the client who needs that type of photography service. This shoot to me was no different in intent. I wanted others opinions on it from an ethical perspective, ie. can I get into trouble for this?

 

[CThomas817]

If it bothers you, stop doing it.

Alan, I am not asking for emotional support. I am asking if I can get into legal trouble.

Your original post never mentioned legal trouble. You were asking for personal feelings and opinions, emotional support, from others regarding the appropriateness of the photos being posted publicly. You seem to be very confused and at odds with yourself because you are listening to others and using their opinions to justify something you're uncomfortable with. If you were comfortable, you wouldn't have started the thread. That's why I suggested you do what your internal compass is telling you to do.

I am not confused about anything and I am not uncomfortable with the photos in any shape or form. My comfort or lack thereof is independent of a legal system's interpretation of what these photos are about. If there are no potential legal ramifications, I would confidently repost them. I am proud of the images and stand by their innocence. I mentioned in my original post that I received a comment about child services having an issue with this. Is that not legal trouble? I have worked with the department of children and families in my state for over 8 years, and I can assure you that if they come knocking, it's because they suspect you are breaking the law. And yes, I asked for opinions about appropriateness and I did ask if I misjudged the situation by assuming there was nothing (legally) wrong with the images. Asking for others opinions and receiving them does not mean I have changed mine. My own feelings about the photos remain the same as the day I posted them.

 

[CThomas817]

Offensive? No. CPS wouldn't take issue with this.

But to go off your idea that this is questionable for older children but ok for younger: I think most adults (men and women) look back at their shirtless childhood photos (because we ALL have them!) with fond memories. We're not offended by them or weirded out by them. Just think, 15 years from now, will you be comfortable showing these photos to your daughter? I assume your answer is yes, but just some food for thought as to when the "shirtless cut off age" should be.

Gorgeous images.

Thank you, and a good way to think about it. At this age, absolutley I would be comfortable showing her as a teen or adult. I have worked with children for many years and I feel like that cutoff lands right about when the child him or herself becomes uncomfortable with those areas not being concealed. At this age, my daughter could run around the beach with no diaper on without a care in the world, but my son (almost 4) would be very embarrassed.

The detail here that should also be considered is that they're on a publicly viewable website on the internet. I'm not saying that I think you did anything wrong or inappropriate, but by putting them on the internet you are also setting the stage to allow others to abuse the photos.

Offensive? No. CPS wouldn't take issue with this.

But to go off your idea that this is questionable for older children but ok for younger: I think most adults (men and women) look back at their shirtless childhood photos (because we ALL have them!) with fond memories. We're not offended by them or weirded out by them. Just think, 15 years from now, will you be comfortable showing these photos to your daughter? I assume your answer is yes, but just some food for thought as to when the "shirtless cut off age" should be.

Gorgeous images.

Thank you, and a good way to think about it. At this age, absolutley I would be comfortable showing her as a teen or adult. I have worked with children for many years and I feel like that cutoff lands right about when the child him or herself becomes uncomfortable with those areas not being concealed. At this age, my daughter could run around the beach with no diaper on without a care in the world, but my son (almost 4) would be very embarrassed.

The detail here that should also be considered is that they're on a publicly viewable website on the internet. I'm not saying that I think you did anything wrong or inappropriate, but by putting them on the internet you are also setting the stage to allow others to abuse the photos.

Ok, thank you.

 

[AlanKlein]

If it bothers you, stop doing it.

Alan, I am not asking for emotional support. I am asking if I can get into legal trouble.

Your original post never mentioned legal trouble. You were asking for personal feelings and opinions, emotional support, from others regarding the appropriateness of the photos being posted publicly. You seem to be very confused and at odds with yourself because you are listening to others and using their opinions to justify something you're uncomfortable with. If you were comfortable, you wouldn't have started the thread. That's why I suggested you do what your internal compass is telling you to do.

I am not confused about anything and I am not uncomfortable with the photos in any shape or form. My comfort or lack thereof is independent of a legal system's interpretation of what these photos are about. If there are no potential legal ramifications, I would confidently repost them. I am proud of the images and stand by their innocence. I mentioned in my original post that I received a comment about child services having an issue with this. Is that not legal trouble? I have worked with the department of children and families in my state for over 8 years, and I can assure you that if they come knocking, it's because they suspect you are breaking the law. And yes, I asked for opinions about appropriateness and I did ask if I misjudged the situation by assuming there was nothing (legally) wrong with the images. Asking for others opinions and receiving them does not mean I have changed mine. My own feelings about the photos remain the same as the day I posted them.

OK. Glad that's settled. I'm sorry if I didn't understand where you were going with this.

 

[JonFZ300]

I am showcasing my work and ability, not my daughter. I am a child photographer, and these images are part of my portfolio. The intent of sharing the photos is to show my scope to potential clients who would like similar images of their children, just like any photographer shares sample images of the genre in which they work. My (public) website is filled with images of babies and children that I have worked with. Countless babies are topless in a cake smash session. Many inspirational photographers that I follow have shared images they have created with their children. Look at Lisa Holloway. She made a name for herself by taking and sharing beautiful photos of her children.

Could I have popped a shirt on her? Sure. But I wasn't thinking there was anything wrong with a shirtless baby.

Again, I don't find them offensive or provocative and you made no mention in the OP about being a professional and using these for portfolio, and I don't see a link to your portfolio site either. So to me, (and I'm pretty new here) it seemed like you took some really nice photos of your child, uploaded them to social media and people were upset. I still think in this day and age, if there's a doubt at all, don't post them.

Edit: I went back and read and my first edit was erroneous. It sounds like you should consult a lawyer or look up the child endangerment laws if you're worried about legal trouble, instead of asking random people on a forum.

 

[DanOstergren]

To you they're innocent, but they're also personal, and in my modest opinion belong in your home, in a photo album or frame, but not on the internet for the world to see and abuse.

This. I don't find them offensive or provocative but I don't understand why you would want to share those with the public.

I am showcasing my work and ability, not my daughter. I am a child photographer, and these images are part of my portfolio. The intent of sharing the photos is to show my scope to potential clients who would like similar images of their children, just like any photographer shares sample images of the genre in which they work. My (public) website is filled with images of babies and children that I have worked with. Countless babies are topless in a cake smash session. Many inspirational photographers that I follow have shared images they have created with their children. Look at Lisa Holloway. She made a name for herself by taking and sharing beautiful photos of her children.

Could I have popped a shirt on her? Sure. But I wasn't thinking there was anything wrong with a shirtless baby.

That's fine, but did you not ask for input?

I think you did:

What are your thoughts on this?

Of course I did and I appreciate the feedback, but you said that you didn't understand why I would share this publicly. I was simply explaining why. It's a work sample.

I do first birthday cake smashes where most babies are topless. I have to share some of those photos in order to attract the client who needs that type of photography service. This shoot to me was no different in intent. I wanted others opinions on it from an ethical perspective, ie. can I get into trouble for this?

Ask a lawyer dude. I'm simply giving you the input that you were requesting. Now I find myself wondering why I even responded in the first place.

 

[K9Kirk]

Personally, the way I see it is if a child that age is expected to be covered top and bottom at a public pool then you can expect people to expect the same anywhere else in public, including a public photo forum. That's not to say that I think society is always right but that to avoid trouble you should follow societies unwritten rules. Do I follow all of societies rules? Do I always care what others think? I often ask if I'm breaking a law when I get looks for this or that and if the answer is no I brush those dirty looks right off. I decided years ago I don't live just to please others, that you can't please everyone and that people are going to talk no matter what you say or do so forget them.

 

[Original katomi]

I think that you have some very good photos, I think that you should rely on your judgment and feelings like someone else said If it makes you or your partner worried then stop,

 

[CThomas817]

I think that you have some very good photos, I think that you should rely on your judgment and feelings like someone else said If it makes you or your partner worried then stop,

Thanks... I wasn't worried until someone said child services lol

 

[SquarePeg]

The photos are lovely and not the least bit offensive or even close to anything that would be illegal or inappropriate IMO. That being said, I would keep them private. Too many pervs out there to take a chance that one could become fixated on your child or use the photos to feed their sickness.