Which Camera Nikon D300s or Canon 7D

saurabh · Dec 7, 2009

Hi I have been planning to buy my first DSLR camera and I am so confused about the camera which will suit my needs. I have a budget of about USD$2500 and I have two options one is D300s and Canon 7D. I can efford to buy Nikon D300s with Nikkor 16-85/3.5-5.6G ED VR lens and on the other side I can efford to buy Canon 7D with 18-135 kit lense.
I need help to make a decision which one is really meant for me. Last and most important thing is that I will be using this camera for mostly Travel, Wildlife and Landscape photography. I want to start with one lens and later would add more better quality lenses as I go.
Please help me.

Montana · Dec 7, 2009

The higher megapixel count of the Canon will allow you to crop more for your wildlife shots that you may not be able to get close enough to on foot. The 7D looks to be a better high ISO performer than the Nikon. Not sure about the Nikon, but the 7D has darn good weather sealing characteristics for your outdoor shooting. Are you into video at all? Canon is the DSLR video leader. Not saying the D300 is not a great body, because it actually is. But between the two, the Canon is superior.

IgsEMT · Dec 7, 2009

The 7D looks to be a better high ISO performer than the Nikon

Really?
Got independent sample results?

Not saying the D300 is not a great body, because it actually is. But between the two, the Canon is superior.

As per who?

My best advice, is hold Canon and Nikon and see how it feels in your hand and to your heart. If it feels right (regardless of the brand) get it and enjoy it. It's like marriage, only cheaper (hope my wife doesn't read this :lmao:). IQ, both brands are amazing and will provide amazing results. Both have positives and negatives associated to them and both "Nikon is better" or "Canon is better" are subjective unless quantitatively evaluated and even then user bias will probably effect opinions

PhotoXopher · Dec 7, 2009

You'll most likely have Canon owners claiming the 7D is better and Nikon owners claiming the D300s is better.

Hold each one in your hands... work through the system, play with the buttons, the menus, get a feel for it.

Whichever one makes the most sense to you is the one you should buy because they are both very capable cameras.

Having owned the D300s I can say it's an absolute workhorse, and yes - it's also weather sealed. Saying the Canon is superior and offers better high ISO is certainly your opinion... I'd also like to see how you came up with this solution, because from everything I've read it comes down to current gear and style preference.

inTempus · Dec 7, 2009

They really are evenly matched. Neither really has the upper hand on the other in terms of image performance or ISO capabilities. The 7D does have more pixels, which is a blessing for some and a curse for others.

I would also look at the available lenses and their costs. I think you will find Canon generally is more affordable than Nikon.

One thing the D300S has that the 7D lacks is two card slots. I personally think all semi-pro and pro bodies should have dual card slots.

It really boils down to personal preference and what you want to do with your camera. Regardless of which one you pick, you should be quite happy with the results.

I would have a hard time picking between them myself if I were just starting out.

Wolverinepwnes · Dec 7, 2009

go play with both at a store, whichever feels better in your hand, and whichever's menus and button lay out you like better is the one you should go with! you will get a canon guy, like the second post from the top telling you 7D is a superior camera and you will get Nikon guys telling you the D300s is better! in all honesty both cameras are great! consider this though: you have to realize buying a camera of this magnitude is a commitment due to the fact that you have to buy Lens for it and thats where the money will be spent! so consider which lens maker you want to go with! higher end lens from Nikkor (nikon) are better quality but they are more expensive than the canons, so keep that in mind! good luck with you choice!!!!

Sw1tchFX · Dec 7, 2009

the 16-85VR is a better lens than the Canon 18-135 for sure.

I<3 the 7D, but i'd go for the D300 instead just because of your lens options.

inTempus · Dec 7, 2009

Wolverinepwnes said:
higher end lens from Nikkor (nikon) are better quality but they are more expensive than the canons, so keep that in mind! good luck with you choice!!!!

I'm sorry, but things aren't that cut and dry. There are Nikkor lenses that are superior to Canon lenses and there are Canon lenses that are superior to Nikkor lenses. As a matter of fact, Canon's super telephotos are generally held to be superior to Nikkor lenses. Canon also offers a range of f/4 lenses that Nikkor doesn't offer.

There are plenty of pros out there that have used both Canon and Nikon who prefer Canon lenses. Here's one such example of a former Canon shooter who switched to Nikon:

photography tip tuesday | “The Switch” | week two: Nikon vs. Canon » Colorado Springs Portrait and Wedding Photographers: Real Photography Blog

Which leads perfectly into what I don’t love [about Nikon]:

- The lenses. Not only are there a lot fewer of them (there is no 35mm f/1.4 Nikon equivalent–which is what kills me the most), but I’m not in love with any of them in the same way that I loved my Canon lenses. It’s pretty much an exact swap. Under Canon, I didn’t love the bodies, but I loved the lenses. With Nikon, I don’t love the lenses, but I’d marry the bodies. The way the Nikon lenses feel in your hand isn’t as nice–particularly with the 70-200, which stays mounted on my camera a lot. It’s skinnier than the Canon version, and has lots of bumps and changes along the way (it’s also longer). The Canon version felt much nicer to hold.

- Did I mention the lenses? Canon updates their lenses very very frequently. Nikon does not. While this is awesome when you buy a lens and know it’s gonna be around for a long time, it sucks in that sometimes you’re buying very old lenses. My 85mm f/1.4 is over ten years old. (Not the actual lens, of course, but the overall design.) Now, this means that you’re missing out on newer innovations. For one thing, the D lenses have the manual aperture ring on them…and that’s just one extra thing that could go wrong (see above). The biggest thing for me, though, is that the older lenses don’t benefit from the advances in flare and chromatic aboration control that have been made in recent years. (And when you use backlighting as much as I do, this is big.)

- Yeah–more about the lenses. I was spoiled by Canon. Flare was incredibly rare, and I rarely pulled out my lens hood. With the Nikon lenses I have to use the lens hood or I get flare. I see this most with the 70-200. I never even thought about flare with my Canon version, but now sometimes even the hood isn’t enough and I need Nic to stand with the reflector acting like a really giant lens hood. And for the fans of flare, it’s not pretty flare. It’s big blob flare which requires time-consuming photoshoppery to remove:

Here are some other observations from this pro about other features of Nikon vs. Canon:

- Flash recycle rate. In our Canon days, we shot with the 580 II (and the 580) and the battery pack to increase the recycle time. We were very happy with the recycle speed. With the Nikon gear, we’re shooting with SB-900 flashes and the SD-8 battery packs. They take 6 batteries instead of 8, and I am NOT impressed with the recycle speed. It is dramatically lower but from reviews, I don’t know that the SD-9 is a worthwhile upgrade. We need to do more research about this, but my initial thought is that Canon has the edge in recycle time.

- The backward-nes. I think most people think - is on the left and + is on the right, regardless of whether or not you have ever seen a camera meter. I should be able to turn a nob to the left to make the image under exposed and turn it to the right to make it over exposed. I just should.

- The menus. I shot with a Nikon point and shoot back in the day, so those are the digital menus I learned on, but I think Canon handles the menus better. Luckily almost everything is right there in buttons on my D3, but when I do have to go into the menus, I’m not a fan. Having four separate menus isn’t super intuitive–I don’t always agree with Nikon over what is a set-up issue and what would fall under the shooting menu.

- The Nikon lens mount is smaller. I don’t like it. (this is the part of the list where I get into the pathetic complaints)

- The D700 comes with a pop-up flash. Versus the 5d which doesn’t. I *hate* camera pop-up flashes cause I have a tendency to accidentally hit the flash button and then it pops up and surprises me, but not in a good “free hamburger” way, just a “where did that come from? now I look flustered and unprofessional” way.

- Nikon’s default setting is to shoot without a memory card. This is an insane default and I turned it to off the minute I took the cameras out of their boxes.

- Nikon’s professional services department is geared toward photojournalists and they seem to have a “portrait and wedding photographers aren’t real professionals” attitude. In order to join their professional services, you have to show 2 tear sheets for each calendar year. Canon, on the other hand, understands that you don’t have to sell images to magazines and newspapers to be a full time photographer. (This is an issue when it comes to repairs and renting equipment.)

What was a mute point? (Or a moo point, as Joey would say&#8230

- Color. The first week or two were difficult as I learned to process the Nikon images. Whichever camera you have, you get used to its idiosyncrasies and learn what you need to do to it in order to get the results you want. I definitely had to re-learn this when we switched. But after a month, I didn’t even think about it anymore. I love the color I get now just as much as I love the color from the Canons. Since I shoot in RAW and make all white-balance and color decisions in post-processing anyway, the straight out of camera results from either camera are void.

MrLogic · Dec 7, 2009

inTempus said:
As a matter of fact, Canon's super telephotos are generally held to be superior to Nikkor lenses.

Superior in what way?

I've never seen any scientific tests or data on this, so a link would be appreciated.

inTempus · Dec 7, 2009

MrLogic said:
inTempus said:

As a matter of fact, Canon's super telephotos are generally held to be superior to Nikkor lenses.

Click to expand...

Superior in what way?

I've never seen any scientific tests or data on this, so a link would be appreciated.

I double checked my post and I confirmed I never said anything about "scientific". By "generally held", I mean why many photogs purchase one brand over the other.

It's also generally held that Nikon has the advantage in wide angle lenses.

From there, have fun with Google!

Derrel · Dec 7, 2009

Preston Mack Photography: The switch to Nikon

Here's professional sports and editorial shooter Preston Mack's story about his switch from Canon to Nikon. Why? It started with an art director telling him, "The cover image doesn't look in focus." Mack shoots for magazines like Time, Newsweek, Business Week, ESPN The Magazine, and Reader's Digest. You know, large, multi-million dollar magazines, with art directors with high standards for judging professional photographic results against those of other professionals, on a daily basis.

Preston Mack's story is being told all across the world, as photographers leave Canon for Nikon cameras and lenses by the thousands. The 2008 Summer Olympics were a good example; at the Olympics, Robert Hanashiro from USA Today, also one who dropped Canon in favor of Nikon, noted that the dominance Canon once held was lost,as legions of Nikon cameras were in evidence at all the Olympic venues. USA Today dropped Canon equipment in favor of Nikon equipment as soon as the Nikon D3 hit the market in 2007.

As Mack concludes, "When I was having my Canon "fire sale" on SportsShooter.com, many photographers emailed me asking if I switched and what my impressions of the new Nikon gear was. For me, I switched because the timing was right. Canon's flagship has a major defect, my EOS lenses were starting to show some age and more importantly, Nikon released a pair of the best digital SLRs ever made, the D300 and the D3. I could not be happier with them - it was not an easy to switch, but a necessary business decision."

As Preston Mack noted, "Another improvement is the Nikon strobes. Canon strobes have always lagged behind Nikon's, and this is still true. I shot one wedding for my wife's business and we were able to compare the Canon 5D/580 EX combo against the D300/SB800 combo. The Nikon results were much more reliable and consistent. I rarely use on camera flash, so this isn't a major concern, but is worth noting."

The Canon telephoto lenses inTempus claims are "superior" to Nikons are the Nikon lenses from the PRIOR generation; Nikon has an entirely new lineup of supertelephotos with VR: world-class 200,300,400,500,and 600mm lenses, all with VR and state of the art focusing capabilities, plus the world leader in long zooms, the 200-400 VR-Nikkor, which is a lens Canon has no equivalent for. Quite a few high-end shooters have left Canon over their lack of development of the semi-pro SLR body segment during the 10D-20D-30D-40D-50D series of incremental specification changes with no real upgrades to the camera or system,such as the inability to wirelessly command flashes, or to edit images in-camera, or to offer D-Lighting editing in-camera,etc, plus the same dated, tired 9-point AF system with a very narrow, center-biased area which the 7D has not improved upon. The 7D has more AF brackets, but the same narrow area of AF bracket coverage as the old 10D through 50D models. The real Canon failing however was the serious AF problems and issues that plagued the 1D Mark III, as well as the lure of pro-level AF and full-frame capabilities Nikon offers in a mid-level camera, the D700. Canon is still putting great sensors into basically a $350 Canon EOS Elan 3 film body and calling it the 5D series...a low-cost body with a nice digital sensor. Nikon's strategy since 2007 has been to put pro-level autofocus into the D300 and D700 and D3 series bodies, so that people starting out can have the same 51-area AF system and the same color-aware light metering and the same professional-level TTL flash control across a three-tier level of prices.

It's probably hard to understand how different Canon and Nikon are until you pick up the cameras side by side.

KmH · Dec 7, 2009

You can also look at the May 10 entry of Yuri Acurs' blog about the tests he did comparing high end Canon and Nikon.

Clash of the Titans – Canon 1Ds Mark III vs Nikon D3X for Stock | Yuri Arcurs

Draw your own conclusions, like Yuri did.

inTempus · Dec 7, 2009

The 1D3, even despite its problems, still out performed the D3 and it's AF system.

Canon 1D MKIII vs. Nikon D3 Sports Autofocus Showdown - Pro Photo HOME

Even without the sub-mirror fix for the 1D3 it smoked the D3, which scored a 48% out of focus score (damn near 50%).

As for the 7D, it has 19 AF points, all of which are cross-type sensors. Compare this to the D300/D700/D3 15 cross-type points and you have a more sensitive AF system. The 7D also uses the same mirror box, view finder and algorithms of the new 1D Mark IV. That means it likely out performs the D300 in AF. I would like to see a review of the two systems side by side.

Pretending the 7D's AF system is anything like the 50D or other previous generations of the xxD bodies seems a bit off-base.

As for the legions of defectees to Nikon from Canon, as Derrel himself has noted previously, this happens from time to time. The bodies Derrel is talking about are a "PRIOR" generation of bodies that caused this defection. Canon still is just a couple of percentage points behind Nikon in the sales wars, Nikon holds the lead by the narrowest of margins. It's not some vast difference as some would have you believe. Now that the 7D is out and the 1D4 is on the way, the pendulum could just as easily swing back to Canon's favor. Only time will tell.

As for the whole quality control issue that keeps getting brought up, as if Nikon never has had an issue with a body before seems a bit disingenuous. Did Canon make a mistake with the 1D3? Yup. Has Nikon ever released a buggy product? Yup. Both will fix their mistakes given time. The moral to that story is don't be an early adopter if you're not prepared to deal with the issues that can arise.

Montana · Dec 7, 2009

Here is an example of the ISO tests asked for.....

http://www.photographybay.com/2009/10/27/canon-7d-vs-nikon-d300s-iso-test/

I don't know why the Nikon guys get their panties in a bunch over a new camera being "better" in certain aspects. Every new body (for the most part) should be better regardless whether it be from Nikon or Canon.

Aritay · Dec 7, 2009

inTempus said:
Canon 1D MKIII vs. Nikon D3 Sports Autofocus Showdown - Pro Photo HOME

I've been reading this thread with interest - - thanks for everyone's input.

Just one point on the above link. At least when I viewed/read this page it was loaded with Canon advertisements. Not saying there is any bias here, but it did not inspire confidence in the objectivity of the results for me, IMHO.