Why are people with DSLRs not using flash?

[dyyylan]

My radio trigger blocks the popup flash from opening


But yeah, I do use it sometimes, TTL on the d90 is really good and I never get those awful harsh photos that you used to get a few years ago where it looks like you're just blasting them in the face with a laserbeam or something

 

[Vinny]

I love the comments about speed lights or stuff attached to the hot shoe and not using the pop up flash ... I don't use the pop up flash on my D90 when I use some else's camera but that doesn't count either.

The question of the difference between a speed light vs pop up shooting straight on wasn't answered so I guess it really isn't known IF there is a difference. Don't have a speed light to run that test but thought someone here might know the answer but obviously nobody knows the answer. IMO and it strictly an opinion - it will be be the same level of harshness but the speed light can reach further than a pop up. Forget about whatever diffuser or bounce or whatever is being used to soften the light. Flash is flash with the only differences being how far away from the lens the flash head is and the amount of power the flash can generate. A person standing 10 feet away with a forward firing flash without anything to soften, diffuse or anything else to stop 100% of the light from reaching the subject (trying to be as exact as possible) using the camera's TTL metering should look almost identical with either a pop up or speed light IMO.

I find it hard to believe that for most of you - if the most important day of the most (or maybe 2nd or 3rd)loved person in your life is ready to be photographed by you (not a professional type event) and you need to use flash; your $1000 flash unit just glitched out so its not working and you didn't bring your camera bag with the other 200 flash units you own and want to photograph the event that you would refuse to use the pop up flash and miss photographing the event because you hate using the pop up flash.

I posted a photo using the D90 with it's pop up flash. As I have said, I don't find it bad at all. Is it that the D90 is far superior than the rest of the DSLRs - I doubt it. Would the photo look amazingly better with a top of the line front firing flash unit - I doubt it.

As far as shedding a tear - yes I did but it is because people buy expensive items and don't learn how to use them. If someone can master the dreaded pop up flash imagine what that person can do with a real flash unit!

 

[fokker]

The speedlight will be slightly less harsh than a popup flash - it is further off-axis and also has a slightly bigger face whgich will help. Whether the difference will be that noticeable in reality.... I dunno.

 

[dyyylan]

In my experience, a popup flash is great if you're looking add light to something to brighten it up. If you're using it TO light something, it generally just nukes it and looks sort of like you expect.

 

[Dominantly]

My wife and I were on a hike one later afternoon when we say some really awesome colors in the sunset in the mountain range behind us. SO I figured I would give the shot a try so I adjusted the exposure for the sunset and then lit her with the pop up flash. I wasn't too displeased with the mini-flashes results.

 

[rufus5150]

Don't have a speed light to run that test but thought someone here might know the answer but obviously nobody knows the answer. IMO and it strictly an opinion - it will be be the same level of harshness but the speed light can reach further than a pop up.

The pop up flash doesn't have a directional tilt/swivel for bounce flash. And seriously, bounce it off anything -- a napkin, someone's cleavage, whatever, will be better light than a pop up flash.

I find it hard to believe that for most of you - if the most important day of the most (or maybe 2nd or 3rd)loved person in your life is ready to be photographed by you (not a professional type event) and you need to use flash; your $1000 flash unit just glitched out so its not working and you didn't bring your camera bag with the other 200 flash units you own and want to photograph the event that you would refuse to use the pop up flash and miss photographing the event because you hate using the pop up flash.

Yes, you'll eventually hit on the ONE situation that we may use it.

Truth be told, I have used it and was merely being facetious with the reply, but the only time I've ever used pop up flash in the past was during broad daylight as fill.

But, I can get decent shots at ISO 6400 and I'm completely capable of focusing my fast glass wide open so those few times where the only savior is a pop up flash just keep getting more and more rare.

 

[manaheim]

I went to a party today and saw at least 4 people with DSLRs taking photos without using their flashes. I do understand that the pop up flash isn't the greatest but it is a light source and can help in taking better photos.

Is there some kind of problem with using flash other than possible harshness? I didn't take my camera but certainly would have used the flash in all the photos that I saw people taking (indoors with large windows on one side, kind of dark otherwise).

BTW, these were just shots of individuals or groups and were probably on Auto. Back in the day of film a flash certainly would have been used; are people in digital now relying on their ISO so much as to not bother with flash?

Inquiring minds want to know (OK, just me!).

I can't think of a single thing you can do to your image worse than using a pop-up flash in it. It's like throwing a steaming bucket of fail all over your subject. Seriously. It's horrrrrrrrrrible.

In truly desperate moments I either crank up the ISO or I absolutely and summarily skip the shot. I do not EVER use the built-in flash.

 

[Dominantly]

 

[Gaerek]

The question of the difference between a speed light vs pop up shooting straight on wasn't answered so I guess it really isn't known IF there is a difference. Don't have a speed light to run that test but thought someone here might know the answer but obviously nobody knows the answer. IMO and it strictly an opinion - it will be be the same level of harshness but the speed light can reach further than a pop up.

This statement is akin to saying that the only difference between a DSLR and P&S camera is that you can change lenses on a DSLR. If you want to try to minimize the differences, then try again. Even with bare, direct flash, the hot shoe flash will look better. It's a larger light source and it's off axis. It is inherently softer light than the tiny pop-up flash. Beyond that, you have more control over the flash, it's easier to add light modifiers, you can bounce it (not just off the ceiling!, try a wall, piece of paper, friends white shirt, just about anything!), if you have a sync cord, you can bring it even further off axis, it won't drain your batteries as fast (since they have their own power), do I need to go on?

You're right, there might be very little difference between an un-diffused hot shoe flash, direct on, and a pop-up flash, but most people don't use their hotshoe flash like this. Stop with the straw man argument!

Forget about whatever diffuser or bounce or whatever is being used to soften the light. Flash is flash with the only differences being how far away from the lens the flash head is and the amount of power the flash can generate. A person standing 10 feet away with a forward firing flash without anything to soften, diffuse or anything else to stop 100% of the light from reaching the subject (trying to be as exact as possible) using the camera's TTL metering should look almost identical with either a pop up or speed light IMO.

There's a third difference that you conveiniently forgot to mention. Size of the light source. Bigger light source = softer light. I don't have my equipment with me at the moment, but the flash head on my 430EXii is at least 7 or 8 times as large as the flash head on my pop-up flash. A large hot shoe flash has inherently softer light than a pop-up flash, given the same distance and flash power.

I find it hard to believe that for most of you - if the most important day of the most (or maybe 2nd or 3rd)loved person in your life is ready to be photographed by you (not a professional type event) and you need to use flash; your $1000 flash unit just glitched out so its not working and you didn't bring your camera bag with the other 200 flash units you own and want to photograph the event that you would refuse to use the pop up flash and miss photographing the event because you hate using the pop up flash.

Straw man again? If it was such a dire situation, I doubt very many people would refuse to shoot in this situation. However, I can pretty much guarentee that a good photographer would still do anything in their power to not have to use the pop-up flash. Adding more light to the scene, cranking ISO, putting on a fast lens, shooting wide open, etc. I'm sure if the pop-up were absolutely needed in this VERY unlikely situation (because, afterall, if it was that important, you wouldn't bring just one strobe, or something for backup, that's just stupid) most people would do what they have to do to get the shot.

I posted a photo using the D90 with it's pop up flash. As I have said, I don't find it bad at all. Is it that the D90 is far superior than the rest of the DSLRs - I doubt it. Would the photo look amazingly better with a top of the line front firing flash unit - I doubt it.

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but that shot really isn't that great. I can assure you that with a hot shoe flash, I could have made it about 10 times better. If all I ever wanted to do was shoot my hot shoe flash un-diffused and direct on, you're right, it would be a waste of money. However, that's the great thing about that piece of equipment, that's not only way, or best way to use it.

As far as shedding a tear - yes I did but it is because people buy expensive items and don't learn how to use them. If someone can master the dreaded pop up flash imagine what that person can do with a real flash unit!

Yes, it's a waste of money to buy a piece of equipment that will make your flash photographs better. By the way, you haven't mastered the use of the pop up flash. And even if you have, you've the proven to me that the $250 I spent on my 430EX II was well worth it, since a non-master of flash (me, apparently) can get better shots with a hot shoe flash than a master of flash (you, apparently) with a pop-up. Assuming of course, that the photo you posted, at least twice now, is showing your masterfulness.

 

[Dallmeyer]

"I never use the pop-up flash!"

I never use a pop-up flash!

Question me all you want, but the 580exII mounted on the hot shoe keeps the pop up flash from opening.

:thumbup:

 

[Vinny]

First, these people did not have another flash to use otherwise they would have used it.

Second, I never said not to use a better flash but if that is the only flash available to use, why not use it.

Third, The "straw man argument" that you say I'm doing is not an argument it was a question as to why if someone only had the pop up flash why they wouldn't use it and you yourself said there would be no difference in a direct fired flash vs a pop up flash. I am in 100% agreement with all of you that a better flash unit is the way to go - I am not saying not to use it and only use the pop up. I asked this question originally and a lot of people came on and said what they own and why THEY wouldn't use it - not the question I asked. Remember that bounce flash came into existence about 30 years ago ... before that the only flash photographers had were direct fired flash unless in a studio setting and they took flash photos.

Fourth, I didn't say my photo is great but acceptable - there is a difference. It was only a shot taken like a point and shoot and again it's acceptable for a family photo situation.

Fifth, most of the people I know buy a camera and if it happened to be a DSLR like was at this party they are using it like a point and shoot. I'm in a different mindset than the people I know but probably would use a DSLR as a fully automatic DSLR if in a family situation vs wanting to be "artistic." Obviously, I'm in a different mindset than the majority here in that I would prefer to get a photo than not taking it even if I didn't have the optimal equipment to get the greatest photo.

Finally, you answered something that I didn't know about a flash that a larger head is a softer light - that was information that you just gave - nobody else gave this information until then. Had I had a flash unit, I might have found this information out myself.

The question of the difference between a speed light vs pop up shooting straight on wasn't answered so I guess it really isn't known IF there is a difference. Don't have a speed light to run that test but thought someone here might know the answer but obviously nobody knows the answer. IMO and it strictly an opinion - it will be be the same level of harshness but the speed light can reach further than a pop up.

This statement is akin to saying that the only difference between a DSLR and P&S camera is that you can change lenses on a DSLR. If you want to try to minimize the differences, then try again. Even with bare, direct flash, the hot shoe flash will look better. It's a larger light source and it's off axis. It is inherently softer light than the tiny pop-up flash. Beyond that, you have more control over the flash, it's easier to add light modifiers, you can bounce it (not just off the ceiling!, try a wall, piece of paper, friends white shirt, just about anything!), if you have a sync cord, you can bring it even further off axis, it won't drain your batteries as fast (since they have their own power), do I need to go on?

You're right, there might be very little difference between an un-diffused hot shoe flash, direct on, and a pop-up flash, but most people don't use their hotshoe flash like this. Stop with the straw man argument!

Forget about whatever diffuser or bounce or whatever is being used to soften the light. Flash is flash with the only differences being how far away from the lens the flash head is and the amount of power the flash can generate. A person standing 10 feet away with a forward firing flash without anything to soften, diffuse or anything else to stop 100% of the light from reaching the subject (trying to be as exact as possible) using the camera's TTL metering should look almost identical with either a pop up or speed light IMO.

There's a third difference that you conveiniently forgot to mention. Size of the light source. Bigger light source = softer light. I don't have my equipment with me at the moment, but the flash head on my 430EXii is at least 7 or 8 times as large as the flash head on my pop-up flash. A large hot shoe flash has inherently softer light than a pop-up flash, given the same distance and flash power.



Straw man again? If it was such a dire situation, I doubt very many people would refuse to shoot in this situation. However, I can pretty much guarentee that a good photographer would still do anything in their power to not have to use the pop-up flash. Adding more light to the scene, cranking ISO, putting on a fast lens, shooting wide open, etc. I'm sure if the pop-up were absolutely needed in this VERY unlikely situation (because, afterall, if it was that important, you wouldn't bring just one strobe, or something for backup, that's just stupid) most people would do what they have to do to get the shot.

I posted a photo using the D90 with it's pop up flash. As I have said, I don't find it bad at all. Is it that the D90 is far superior than the rest of the DSLRs - I doubt it. Would the photo look amazingly better with a top of the line front firing flash unit - I doubt it.

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but that shot really isn't that great. I can assure you that with a hot shoe flash, I could have made it about 10 times better. If all I ever wanted to do was shoot my hot shoe flash un-diffused and direct on, you're right, it would be a waste of money. However, that's the great thing about that piece of equipment, that's not only way, or best way to use it.

As far as shedding a tear - yes I did but it is because people buy expensive items and don't learn how to use them. If someone can master the dreaded pop up flash imagine what that person can do with a real flash unit!

Yes, it's a waste of money to buy a piece of equipment that will make your flash photographs better. By the way, you haven't mastered the use of the pop up flash. And even if you have, you've the proven to me that the $250 I spent on my 430EX II was well worth it, since a non-master of flash (me, apparently) can get better shots with a hot shoe flash than a master of flash (you, apparently) with a pop-up. Assuming of course, that the photo you posted, at least twice now, is showing your masterfulness.

 

[Dominantly]

If you put a blanket statement out saying you would never use your pop up, or that the results of using it correctly were completely unworthy of being accepted, then you're far too close minded.

 

[SushiWarrior]

I never use a pop-up if I want to take an artistic shot. For a snapshot, sure! But if I want to do anything good looking I would never use it. Only situation I would CONSIDER using it is as a fill light.

 

[Scatterbrained]

If you put a blanket statement out saying you would never use your pop up, or that the results of using it correctly were completely unworthy of being accepted, then you're far too close minded.

I would never use a pop up flash, but then again my camera doesn't have one.

 

[manaheim]

If you put a blanket statement out saying you would never use your pop up, or that the results of using it correctly were completely unworthy of being accepted, then you're far too close minded.

Guilty!