Why ask for CC?

[The_Traveler]

Oh boy.
Isn't it time for the moron twins to post something?

 

[Bevel Heaven]

this is friggin rediculous....... I guess there are the same type of people in all walks of life. On my forum, a vintage Ducati [Italian motorcycle] forum, I have had some people with the holier than thou attitude, they demean others, they berate others,......... It is like everything that comes out of their keyboard is designed to make themselves look like the king ding dong they think they are, and at the same time, chastise everyone else. WOW. I have been thinking about this type of crap I have read here for weeks since I joined this forum and began posting. Now here is a post on this exact topic.

Nice.

I have banned several guys from my forum for being a$$ hats. They just couldn;t tone anything down. I give em a PM warning/reminder of my rules and guidlines, then a respond to their diatribe telling them to delete their post by a certain time and tone it down from here on out or I will delete it for them, along with ALL their other posts, and bann them thereafter....

An excerpt from my forum below;

The administrators of this forum reserve the right to delete any comments or threads which they consider to be offensive, inflammatory, discriminatory, off-topic or generally rude in nature. Civil behaviour is mandatory on this forum at all times by everyone involved. Personal attacks WILL NOT be tolerated and abusers of this rule will be banned from posting on this forum.

And if you still don;t get it:

Hint #1. Almost nobody ever changes their opinion of another person as a result of a message you send criticizing him. They are more likely to change their opinion of you.

Hint #2. If you said it once, and nobody listened, saying it again louder and more forcefully is not going to change anything.

There is a bunch more stuff but you'all get the picture. My forum is privately owned as well, it is mine. To the guys who cry FREEDOM OF SPEECH and all that....... that is great - BYE BYE if you are going to be an ass.

Anyways, I have no axe to grind with anyone here on this forum, as noone has *really* pissed me off........ no big deal. That said, some of the posters in this thread I think wouldn;t last very long on my forum :hugs:

Hugs and kisses all'round boys

All I know is that after 25+ years of taking photos, I still learn new stuff all the time which is why I tend to visit this place every few days, hoping to gleen something I haven;t already done or tried. And for that I appreciate all the MEANINGFULL comments that SOME people write.

BTW I like what sabbath999 had to say and pretty much feel the same.

 

[Alpha]

Hint #1. Almost nobody ever changes their opinion of another person as a result of a message you send criticizing him. They are more likely to change their opinion of you.

I agree entirely. What a wonderfully hypocritical thing of you to say

Hint #2. If you said it once, and nobody listened, saying it again louder and more forcefully is not going to change anything.

Except for messages in red font. Now that will make somebody listen.


If you don't like the way the forum is run, then go post in the suggestions section. This diatribe of yours doesn't even have anything to do with this thread. It's just a rant about "some of the posters." Go back to your own forum if it bothers you that much.

 

[shorty6049]

this thread is craaaaazayy!

 

[Battou]

sabbath999, There are flaws with your stand point one major one and a couple minor ones. The major one boils down to one simple point, What is "interesting". That said, yeah any one can say what they find interesting is interesting, however there come times when photographers specialize in things that some one has zero interest in. It is for this reason I try to only grant any critical analysis on images that I my self make a point to take. I don't take "interesting" pictures very often The bulk of my work is in automotive, primarily a different sector of automotive photography to boot and abandoned structures. I do not get artzy fartzy on those images, but I do know how to.

Now I am sure you don't want to see every ding, dent, scratch, peeling clearcoat and broken panel on a 2001 Saturn, do you....I didn't think so. My architectural imagery is boring and mundane to many as well. For the most part I don't take pictures to please people or peak their interest, That dose not mean I can not, merely that I do not. The photographs I take are interesting to a select group of people. This brings me to one of the minor aspects, I don't put the bulk of that on display for a few reasons. One, this is not Den's Body shop, Nationwide insurance or the Urban revitalization forum, Two they had a purpose, my purpose. What do you as a community need with those images, Nothing. So I choose to leave the bulk of them at home. Just because one does not show you he/she can take a good picture does not mean they can't nor should it mean they can't see an issue and should be disregarded.

Some thing you touched on but missed one of the points on. It's something I have said countless times and that is, knowing something technically is different than knowing something in practice are two entirely different things. Not knowing a technical aspect of a photo can **** up an image. Just because some one who knows DOF by all it's technical aspects dose not mean they can pull off a spectacular bokeh, there is more to it than that, and I know you know that. To some one trying to pull off a spectacular bokeh and failing due to lack of technical knowledge, to disregard input from this person is foolhardy, they may have the information the one taking the picture is lacking, the same thing applies to equipment.

 

[Alex_B]

Oh boy.
Isn't it time for the moron twins to post something?

:lmao:

 

[Bevel Heaven]

MaxBloom you are one funny, er, person.

 

[Chris of Arabia]

I found myself reading this through and finding merit in almost everything being written about their personal approach to receiving CC from others. Or at least I did until I thought about whether that made sense to me.

Having spent an admittedly short time thinking about what my own view really is, what I came up with when considering feedback was this:

1. Do I understand the comment/suggestion being made?
2. Do I agree with it?

If 1 & 2 is yes, then I have something I can work with. If 1 is yes but not 2, then the suggestion gets parked. If 1 is a no (2 temporarily redundant at this point), then I need to ask questions.

Any consideration of who is making the comment is secondary to the above, but I am more like to listen to someone I respect as a person, whether I consider their photography to be of a standard or not.

As an aside, a recent photograph I posted here received a comment to the effect that the poster didn't like the particular image in question - fair enough, sounds like differing views in taste: an opinion I'd say. They then said "sorry" :scratch:. Why do you have to apologise for holding an opinion? So long as you can express your thoughts in a considered manner, without being offensive, you shouldn't have to start 'softening the blow' by being apologetic about it. That seems to display a certain lack of conviction.

 

[Neuner]

its called taking the piss

sorry you americans dont get humour do ya

You're not American? I G U E S S WE S H O U L D T H E N W R I T E I N C A P S A N D T Y P E S L O W E R S O Y O U U N D E R S T A N D .

 

[Neuner]

The administrators of this forum reserve the right to delete any comments or threads which they consider to be offensive, inflammatory, discriminatory, off-topic or generally rude in nature. Civil behaviour is mandatory on this forum at all times by everyone involved. Personal attacks WILL NOT be tolerated and abusers of this rule will be banned from posting on this forum.

My forum is privately owned as well, it is mine. To the guys who cry FREEDOM OF SPEECH and all that.......

It's good that as a forum owner and administrator you have these ground rules, but more responsibility is being placed on you. Times are changing for the internet and locally we have experienced this first hand. A neighboring city has passed a law banning internet harrassment which stemmed from a local teenage girl committing suicide due to comments on MySpace. I think most have heard about it on the national news, but here is a link; http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gg5xCtQtLBF6vJqWXStItGEOsJfwD8T39QMG0

No matter what you think about the individuals in the story and what has happened, the end result of the matter is that the government is getting more of a grip on the internet and there may be severe consequences to what you type anywhere.

I've owned a website and dismantled it after it started turning into a big brawl. Yes, it's your website and you can act all high & mighty, but you need to understand that you have a large social responsibility and you must always be on your guard for what's hiding around the next corner.

 

[kundalini]

I take great homage to the majority of what has appeared in this thread. Some of it I agree with some of it not so much (kinda like the C&C of my photos). Unless I completely missed it above, there has been an aspect of offering C&C that has been overlooked thus far.

I am guilty of offering comments like nice color, I like it, I don’t like it, WOW, blah, blah, blah. The longer I stayed on this forum, the more cognizant I became of the C&C other heavy posters were giving and the reasons for theirs comments both on a technical level as well as an aesthetic level. This made my go Hmmmm. During this time I was also becoming more comfortable with my skills for my camera. I continued to read books, do web searches for my inadequacies or lack of understanding a particular issue. The more I felt at ease of the initial shock of shooting images again, really trying to achieve a certain purpose in the image, the more I felt comfortable to elaborate on my comments to someone’s photo that asked for C&C. This once more made me go Hmmmm.

Could those two be related in some way? Methinks they quite possibly could. This required me to study an image rather than just having a glance and making an off the wall comment. I also spotlighted certain members here (and elsewhere) to gain more understanding. I look at a photo that has been posted for C&C now before I read any comments by anyone else. Sometimes I make notes of my thoughts and lay in wait to see if somebody else will pick up the same impression that I did. Sometimes I’m further down in the thread and can find a facet within the image that had been overlooked or at least not brought out for attention. I am getting more comments further down in the thread that either quotes me or references something I said more often. When it does happen, I get a little smile on my face as an acknowledgement that my efforts are not in vain.

Granted there are one or two 4 digit members here that I have absolutely no regard for their comments. There are one or two members that have really pissed me off for various reasons, but don’t mean their comments contain any less validity. So, on that end it is “different strokes for different strokes”. Same can be said for 2 & 3 digit members as well.

In conclusion, my point is that by me contributing quantitative C&C is complimenting my efforts to become a well-rounded photographer. I truly believe this is a positive not only as a photographer but for personal growth and development as well. I may not be a professional but I do posses two eyes, an opinion and grey matter that (generally) works.

 

[JerryPH]

I posted once in the CC. I learned a few things about the picture... and I also learned that the correct answer to ANY critique was "thank-you"... then I pick through all the jewels of info, improve, smile and play again later when I've improved the aspect that needed improvement.

I use what I feel was sincere, and the rest that I do not use gets put in my trash.

Everyone has a right to CC... and though some may have a distinct lack of social skills or come off as rude, condescening or jerks... listen to them anyway, becuase they may have valid advice, but filter out what YOU feel is important, and always thank them for their effort. It's what you came for. The bad wil help you a LOT more than the pats on the back.

When I critique, I make it a point to voice what I think is wrong in a pic and how I feel is the right way to correct it... but I NEVER EVER leave without saying somthing that I feel is nice about a pic, and that sentiment is sincere. If I cannot do that, I will not post (well, I watch very hard not to anyways).

If you put a pic in the CC section... EXPECT it to be critiqued, thank all participants for caring enough to share their thoughts, learn from it and move on.

 

[The_Traveler]

When I critique, I make it a point to voice what I think is wrong in a pic and how I feel is the right way to correct it... but I NEVER EVER leave without saying somthing that I feel is nice about a pic, and that sentiment is sincere. If I cannot do that, I will not post (well, I watch very hard not to anyways).

Although I appreciate the kind hearts behind the motivation to always say something nice, but that sometimes conflicts with the reality.

To me, I think it is much more important that I tell the absolute truth in an objective manner as I see it. If I can say something that will help, I do. If I like something, I say that, but I have an absolute distaste for unwarranted praise.

I think there is a sort of social contract entered in when asking or giving c/c. If I post a picture, I expect that a responder will be honest and, as much as possible, objective and I have a commitment to listen to honestly given C/C.

As a critic/commenter my responsibility is to be honest - and civil and I expect that the OP will listen to what I say and be civil in the interchange. (He/she doesn't have to believe it, just must listen).

If the OP violates the contract by being a schmuck, then I feel my requirements to be civil are abrogated. And they will get what they deserve.

 

[jols]

You're not American? I G U E S S WE S H O U L D T H E N W R I T E I N C A P S A N D T Y P E S L O W E R S O Y O U U N D E R S T A N D .

and can you put spaces between your words it would make it easier for me thanks

 

[JerryPH]

Although I appreciate the kind hearts behind the motivation to always say something nice, but that sometimes conflicts with the reality.

To me, I think it is much more important that I tell the absolute truth in an objective manner as I see it. If I can say something that will help, I do. If I like something, I say that, but I have an absolute distaste for unwarranted praise.

As a critic/commenter my responsibility is to be honest - and civil and I expect that the OP will listen to what I say and be civil in the interchange. (He/she doesn't have to believe it, just must listen).

If the OP violates the contract by being a schmuck, then I feel my requirements to be civil are abrogated. And they will get what they deserve.

I totally respect your point and I agree with it, but I think you misunderstood me.

I don't hold back what I feel about it, but there is a difference between telling them they are useless as a photographer and that picture sucks vs explaining that their picture is blurred, has no clear subject and that blurred horse (or is that their dog?) clearly has a tree growing out of it's head (or is that it's butt?), but I can say it without being offensive and demeaning to the person as a human being.

We all want the same thing, to be explained what is wrong and how to fix it and how to do better in the future. Being told they are a photographic dolt is not critique, its an insult (I am exaggerating, of course, but thats just to make it clear to those who are not clear on what I mean).

I think some people need to define the difference between an insult and a critique to themselves... and offer more critique and less insults.

Not to sugar coat it, but there are honestly very few pics posted where one looks at it and say "ugh! thats just plain terrible"... and even with those few, you have to give credit to the photographer for at least trying, and at least there you can finish off your critique with " well you can see that there is a lot of room for improvement, but it was a good effort. Next time try... ".

I was bloody lucky with my one critique so far. They were polite, explained that I had a railing growing out of the head of my subject as well as a few things that at the time were above my understanding.

I took all the criticism, said, "yup he's right about... ", looked at what I did not know said "huh?" and and used that to learn more about lighting than I was expecting to from their comments.

Everyone who posts there wants a critique, but no one is looking to be insulted. If someone finds themselves wanting to get really nasty with someone... there is a little red "X" at the top of the window that they should use. I've done it numerous times myself!

Ladies and Gents, it is so close to the holiday season and maybe we need to take a small step back, go shoot some photos that make us feel good about this time of the year and once we come here with good feeling, we should share that. I don't know about you, but I think I am going to go start a thread that does *just* that.