Wondering why Sony isnt coming out with a user grade full frame camera

[goodguy]

I was reading today a thread of a guy who want to buy a full frame camera, not a pro grade but a user grade and I mentioned he should consider Nikon 600 and Canon 6D and then it hit me that Sony doesnt have a user grade full frame camera and I was wondering why.
You have the a77 which is a cropped sensor and above it you have the a99 but nothing in between, a full frame that will give an amature a good full frame without the extra additions which cost much more that he/she will not need but will pay for.
A full frame in the 1800$-2000$ region.

Does anyone know if Sony plans on making such a camera ?

 

[cgipson1]

That would be this.... Sony reveals DSC-RX1 full-frame camera with fixed Zeiss T* 35mm F2 lens: Digital Photography Review lol!

Oops.. to expensive, that is in D800 range!

 

[dxqcanada2]

Rumour has it that Sony does plan on a Full-Frame NEX, and an SLT-A99 replacement probably this year.

 

[CouncilmanDoug]

That would be this.... Sony reveals DSC-RX1 full-frame camera with fixed Zeiss T* 35mm F2 lens: Digital Photography Review lol!

Oops.. to expensive, that is in D800 range!

If I had tons of $ to throw around, I'd try this thing for sure

 

[Derrel]

Right now, Sony is charging $800-$900 MORE than a Nikon FX camera, and when one includes the recently discontinued NIkon D600 + FREE 24-85mm AF-S VR lens promo Nikon had for $1,999 US dollars before Christmas, the price difference was more like $1500...

I think it is simply a matter of profit margin; a large, 24x36mm sensor costs a LOT more to make/buy than does an APS-C sensor. With 24MP APS-C sensors now available and made by Toshiba, Nikon, and SONY (Nikon is using TOSHIBA and NIKON-made 24-MP 1.5x sensors in the D3200 and D5200,not SONY-made sensors), the per-camera profit margin on APS-C models is much,much higher than on Full-Frame cameras, simply due to the sensor cost, which is the highest-cost component of every d-slr made. Why make low-priced FF cameras when high-priced APS-C SONY bodies, or high-priced FF SONY bodies, make much higher profit per camera made and sold??? SONY needs to keep itself in business,and needs to do what it needs to do!!!!

SONY has not turned a corporate profit in YEARS, and has been losing money at an ever-worse rate for quarter after quarter; they do not have the volume of sales the way Canon or Nikon has, so it makes very little sense for them to race to the bottom of the price/feature set...SONY needs to make at least some profit on each camera sold...they do not have the volume to flood markets the way Canon and Nikon can...making a cut-priced FF d-slr is probably not really in SONY's best interest. Look at the way they are pricing their most-recent FF models--at huge premiums...so they can make some profit, and not need to have huge volume to do it! Higher prices also convey a sense of exclusivity and snob appeal to customers. Rolls-Royce does NOT want, or need, to build a Kia-priced car; Rolex does not need or want to compete with Casio or Timex in making cheap-a$$ wristwatches...

 

[CouncilmanDoug]

are fx sensors really that much more expensive? can someone enlighten me on how much it would cost to make just a sensor?

 

[Derrel]

are fx sensors really that much more expensive? can someone enlighten me on how much it would cost to make just a sensor?

I have read quantity volume wholesale pricing of $500 per unit on 24x36 sensels AKA full-frame; that does not include the AA filters or elecronics...just the light-sensitve 'sensel' part...and more like $80 or thereabouts for APS-C...

 

[CouncilmanDoug]

that's crazy! I was expecting like $50 and $100, the production price is probably going to keep going down right? because I would love to see a d7000 priced full frame dslr one day

 

[KmH]

Wondering why Sony isnt coming out with a user grade full frame camera

Because profit margins drop. (see below)
Sony has a l o n g way to go as far as increasing their DSLR market share.

are fx sensors really that much more expensive? can someone enlighten me on how much it would cost to make just a sensor?

FX is a Nikon designation.

Digital Camera Sensor Sizes: How it Influences Your Photography

COST OF PRODUCING DIGITAL SENSORS

The cost of a digital sensor rises dramatically as its area increases. This means that a sensor with twice the area will cost more than twice as much, so you are effectively paying more per unit "sensor real estate" as you move to larger sizes.

Silicon Wafer
(divided into small sensors)

Silicon Wafer
(divided into large sensors)

One can understand this by looking at how manufacturers make their digital sensors. Each sensor is cut from a larger sheet of silicon material called a wafer, which may contain thousands of individual chips. Each wafer is extremely expensive (thousands of dollars), therefore fewer chips per wafer result in a much higher cost per chip. Furthermore, the chance of an irreparable defect (too many hot pixels or otherwise) ending up in a given sensor increases with sensor area, therefore the percentage of usable sensors goes down with increasing sensor area (yield per wafer). Assuming these factors (chips per wafer and yield) are most important, costs increase proportional to the square of sensor area (a sensor 2X as big costs 4X as much). Real-world manufacturing has a more complicated size versus cost relationship, but this gives you an idea of skyrocketing costs.
This is not to say though that certain sized sensors will always be prohibitively expensive; their price may eventually drop, but the relative cost of a larger sensor is likely to remain significantly more expensive (per unit area) when compared to some smaller size.

 

[Patriot]

I'm sure as technology get better they will get cheaper. I read sometime as year they someone discovered a alternative to using silicon. This new material is far cheaper because it's in a abundant amount. I wish I could remember the name of this stuff.

It may also get cheap once they figure out how to remove the human element from production. Imagine very smart robots making everything.

 

[DiskoJoe]

They could buy a a850 or an a900 for that price or less used.

 

[Derrel]

Used cameras are quite often a GREAT way to score huge savings!!!!

 

[DiskoJoe]

Rumour has it that Sony does plan on a Full-Frame NEX, and an SLT-A99 replacement probably this year.

Thats 2014. Sony stated that they were focusing on APS-c this year.

 

[DiskoJoe]

Used cameras are quite often a GREAT way to score huge savings!!!!

With Sony, usually only one person owned it too.

 

[bigal1000]

If Sony doesn't start making some profits there won't be any Sony cameras as for the RX-1 too little for too much money,you can get a Nikon D800 for less money!!