Buy a Camera, Start A Business?

Actor · Aug 27, 2009

KmH has this quote in his signature:

"Making money from your photography is more about business skill, than photography skill."

Nothing could be more true.

Take two guys. Let's call them Tom and Dick. Tom has a BFA and is an excellent photographer but knows nothing about business. Dick has an MBA but knows zip about photography. They both decide to go into the photography business.

Tom buys a copy of How to Succeed in Business.

Dick buys a copy of Digital Photography for Dummies. Then he writes up a business plan. The last thing he does is buy a camera.

If only one of these guys is going to succeed, my money's on Dick.

manaheim · Aug 27, 2009

^^^

Ok, that's a lovely little fable, but since both people are made up characters it doesn't really prove the point.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but I could make up any kind of story with two fictitious characters to "prove" a point, and it wouldn't actually make it any more valid than if I just said it was my opinion.

Dao · Aug 27, 2009

Totally agree with Photography and Business are different animals. Don't mix up.

Personally, I believe photographer is a profession, not a business (like medical doctor). To start a photography business, you do not need to be a photographer. (You can hire someone to do that)

Just like you do not need to know how to cook to own a restaurant. You do not need to know how to refine oil to own a gas station. But you need to know how to run a business to own a business though.

If you cannot make money with your business, do not blame others. It is a free market (assuming the market is not shrinking), you may want to know why you are not competitive. It is not other people steal your business, it is the market think the other are better.

But why people choose others, not yours? Think about that. That could be many reasons.

fiveoboy01 · Aug 27, 2009

I can relate to this a little bit. I own a landscape maintenance business, going on it's 5th year.

Landscape maintenance is a cut-throat business and there is always the "lowballer" and "guy with the mower" running around and tossing out cheap prices to get work.

I NEVER worry about these guys, for several reasons:

90% of them can't manage a business and they'll be OUT of business shortly.
They aren't insured, something happens, they get sued. Out of business.
No license/seller's permit, don't pay taxes. Get nailed. Out of business.
They are un-reliable, or rude. Out of business.
Their quality of work stinks. They lose the customer to people like me.
They're un-professional in appearance and demeanor. See above.
The customer who chooses their service provider based on price alone is a customer I don't want, as I'll lose them anyways to the next guy who comes along and cuts my throat on price.
People who want QUALITY work will pay more for it, this is a fact.

Now of course a few of them don't meet the above criteria, and they become successful, and good for them.

I NEVER worry about competition. You guys who whine about "joe blow" photographer with 2 months of experience, step your game up and be better than them, take that energy and put it towards your own business instead of worrying about what the other guys is doing. "Mr. Cheap" will ALWAYS be around, there's no way around it. Deal with it instead of complaining.

Actor · Aug 28, 2009

manaheim said:
^^^ Ok, that's a lovely little fable, but since both people are made up characters it doesn't really prove the point.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but I could make up any kind of story with two fictitious characters to "prove" a point, and it wouldn't actually make it any more valid than if I just said it was my opinion.

It's not a fable. It's a parable. There's a difference. A parable is not intended to prove a point but to illustrate it.

Jesus told parables. The Good Samaritan and the Prodigal Son were made up characters. The parables illustrated his teaching. They were not meant to prove that following them would get you to heaven.

So, yes, you're right. It's just my opinion. The parable illustrates my point, clarifies it and hopefully makes the reader more inclined to agree with me. But in doesn't prove, nor was it intended to prove, anything.

itznfb · Aug 28, 2009

^^ wow. It's been a while since I've seen Jesus thrown into an e-rgument.

snaggle · Aug 28, 2009

I dont see a problem with people trying to make a buck, sooner or later they will fall flat on there face and the pros can be there to pick up some of the empty contracts.

I have been in to photography for years now, with a P&S, but have only statred to look it to it about 6 month ago, when I bought my Canon. I would not dream of going and doing a wedding or something righ now, but once I get enough good shot together I want to have a web site to sell them.

Am I wrong for trying to sell my photos? No. I am going to take some customers from the pros? Yes. Am I going to loose any sleep over this? No. Are some people going to ***** at me? Yes.

All I am trying to do is get some money for better gear and see what people think of my photos. I would tell any one I know to do this to help cover the cost of the hobby, it is not cheap and not every one is made of money.

thenikonguy · Aug 28, 2009

I thought this thread died... but, I guess not..

First off, in regards to the message above me.. I have absoutly no problem with someone going out, taking photos of STUFF, and selling those photos, that is a great way to make some extra money for gear, and its a wonderful confidence boost, because someone wants to have your photo of "that thing" on their fridge, thats not really what i have my beef with.. its the people who sell themselves as a "wedding photograper" or a "portrait photographer".. really the main one that scares me is the ones who try to become wedding photographers..

Heres a message I just sent to someone who sent me a PM.. I think it sums up my feelings on the issue:

the real pros are safe, but the thing that I find in my area (where there are only a couple real pros, and a PILE of "soccer moms with DSLR's" the thing that happens is, "Joe" goes with the soccer mom to do the photos FIRST, then realizes that "you get what you pay for" THEN Joe comes to me.. In all honesty (and I know most people don't know what honesty is these days) most of my rant about fake pros, is TOTALLY out of respect for the client, who is getting screwed.. and I know that no one is going to believe me when I say that, but, I don't do photography to make my millions, I do make money at it, and it is to subsidize the fact that my job does NOT pay well.. so when I say I am honestly frustrated with fake pros our of respect for the client, I really do mean it.

I HATE it when a client comes to me and says "yea, we tried "this person" and they had a nice camera and a nice website, so I thought they knew what they were doing"

It's a bonus for me, because by them coming to me after the fact says something about my work, but, I really hate that they have to learn the lesson the hard way... especially when it comes to wedding photos, which is the stories I hear the most. I can't tell you how many shoots I've done, 2 weeks after someones wedding because they went with "soccer mom" because she was cheaper, but none of the photos were very good.. so they we have to create a fake environment, so they can have something to remember their "special day"

disclaimer: this message is by no means meant to offend soccer moms, its just the word that came to my mind (and its also the ones around my area that run "photography business' "

itznfb · Aug 28, 2009

No. You thought right. It died.

thenikonguy · Aug 28, 2009

itznfb said:
No. You thought right. It died.

GOOD, i really don't want to open that bag again!!

thanks for confirming it for me!

c.cloudwalker · Aug 28, 2009

No, it didn't quite die. And you just revived it. Once more.

"its a wonderful confidence boost, because someone wants to have your photo of "that thing" on their fridge" WOW, what an amazing snob you are. Especially for someone who only shows his funny/test/who knows-what photos on this site. How are we supposed to know if we should even take you seriously?

Nolan · Aug 28, 2009

Just focus on the art of photography and let every thing else fall into place after you master and hone your skills.

Plato · Aug 28, 2009

I'm fascinated by the individuals that are concerned about losing business to Joe Blow. Maybe, just maybe, Joe's better than you give him credit for. Maybe, just maybe, you're not as good as you think you are despite the "I'll pat your back if you pat mine" critiques on the forum. Maybe, just maybe, Joe's not as good as you are but he's "good enough" to satisfy the client and at a much lower price. Maybe, just maybe, he's simply a better marketer than you are.

I see that many posters list their camera equipment as part of their signature. I wonder why... is it intended to impress other forum members? I also wonder how many of these individuals list their camera equipment on their web sites to impress potential clients.

c.cloudwalker · Aug 28, 2009

Plato said:
I'm fascinated by the individuals that are concerned about losing business to Joe Blow. Maybe, just maybe, Joe's better than you give him credit for. Maybe, just maybe, you're not as good as you think you are despite the "I'll pat your back if you pat mine" critiques on the forum. Maybe, just maybe, Joe's not as good as you are but he's "good enough" to satisfy the client and at a much lower price. Maybe, just maybe, he's simply a better marketer than you are.

I see that many posters list their camera equipment as part of their signature. I wonder why... is it intended to impress other forum members? I also wonder how many of these individuals list their camera equipment on their web sites to impress potential clients.

:thumbup:

Wow! what a response to this BS. Let's not forget some people even list the kind of filters they have :lmao:

thenikonguy · Aug 28, 2009

c.cloudwalker said:
No, it didn't quite die. And you just revived it. Once more.

"its a wonderful confidence boost, because someone wants to have your photo of "that thing" on their fridge" WOW, what an amazing snob you are. Especially for someone who only shows his funny/test/who knows-what photos on this site. How are we supposed to know if we should even take you seriously?

well that's now at all the reply I expected to get from that particular statement.. How does I make me a snob I merely state that someone wanting to buy your photos boosts your confidence.. Does it not? I do t think there was anything wrong with the statement... Nothing about it makes me a snob... It's a fact..

And I don't post my studio shots because I don't think it's right to do that to my clients... unless I tell them I'm posting the. I don't... From time to time when I like a photo enough to add it to my portfolio I will ask them .. But most of them go to their private gallery... And I have posted some shots just not a lot