Just a Thought - Weddings Geeze .. Everyone can be a photographer

[Mike_E]

Jon, is it arrogance to think that someone should give a quality service when being paid?

Photographers get riled up faster than most when talking about an inexperienced person shooting a wedding simply because they have a better understanding of the difficulties involved.

If you want to see someone really react, try standing near a group of doctors and telling them about how you have a person lined up for brain surgery next month and then saying: "Oh by the way- what's the best way to get inside the skull with out making too big a mess? I'd really hate to mess up the new set of scrubs I bought just for the occasion.".

 

[Henry Peach]

I've had 4 last minute bookings this year from folks who originally hired someone a lot cheaper, but changed their mind after the engagement pics.

It's 2009. I think any bride with access to the internet should be well enough informed as to the variety of skill levels among wedding photographers. That said everyone has to start somewhere; I only charged $400 for the first wedding I did. Those folks were very happy with the photos. It's up to the consumer to do some research and ask for references, and question a deal that's too good to be true.

I don't get riled up about newbies doing weddings; the people who hire them were never interested in hiring me, or they just can't afford me. The biz has been full of folks of questionable skill and creativity since 1888 when Eastman introduced film, and made photography cheap, easy, and convenient for everyone.

 

[Garbz]

Yeah everyone has to start somewhere, but offering their services on Craigs List is not the right way to do it. I understand Jon's perspective but you should not be learning these skills in the field where you could hurt potential customers, let alone gain a bad business reputation before you even start.

Want to get into weddings, then contact photographers, tag along, carry some bags, ask questions, LEARN, then consider trying not to ruin someone's perfect day.

 

[JerryPH]

I've stayed out of this thread for a little while. (lol)

Anything, no matter what, is easy to do, if you do a crap job, but is difficult to do PROPERLY. Anyone can take a point and shoot, stand in the isle and flash the bride in the face from 3 feet away and call themselves a wedding photographer. I've seen that with my own eyes.

Taking a shot that brings tears of joy to someone now and years from now... thats a whole other level of skill that very few people have. The thing is, when they pay for that service, this is exactly what people are paying for, and let me say that the longer I mentor, the harder I work, the more I learn... the more I see how hard it is to do right.

That is the difference that experience teaches you... if nothing else, to do it RIGHT, it takes a great deal of practice, experience, talent and time. In this age of all disposable, instant gratification society, true effort is a commodity that very few want to invest in. Nooooo... let's go to Best Buy, get a dSLR this Thursday and hang that "Wedding Photographer" shingle on our door this Saturday, because it is not about the art, not about the quality, it is about the easy money. Hah! You wish!!

Bottom line... the results suck from the point of view of the people that matter the most... the people that paid for this... the bride and groom, because they are the ones that have to live with those crappy results forever.

The wanna-be's are not just hurting the industry, but hurting the very people that are paying them for their "services". I wish they could feel the hurt and sadness that the people they "serviced" feel years later when the clients look at those pictures.

I have nothing against anyone wanting to become a wedding or any other kind of photographer... but for God's sake, don't make other clients pay for your education. Learn before, then please the clients.

I know it is not a fair comparison, but I will say it anyways... you don't see people wake up one morning and say that they want to become surgeons and dentists and the same day hang a shingle on their door... they work hard at it.

A photographer should have the same passion and dedication to perfection and learn their craft before servicing clients. Not before.

 

[FitzTML]

I think the ads for cameras have a bit to blame for the "everyone can be a professional" mentality. You have Ashton Kutcher crashing a wedding and taking pictures half drunk while you have a soccer (or rather football) mom taking pictures of her son growing up through the ranks of pee-wee through pro football(the American variety) with a kit lens and images that would grace just about any sports page.

 

[JerryPH]

If that is true, then I would then have to say that the marketing companies are doing a fine job... lol

 

[epp_b]

I've seen the ads he's talking about, they make me want to punch a wall. A brick one.

 

[JerryPH]

Me too, but replace the brick wall with Ashton Kutcher's face, it's softer... lol

(thats a joke!)

 

[epp_b]

Maybe not softer, but certainly more enjoyable to shove a tightly closed hand into at a high and forward velocity

 

[Garbz]

Aww and deprive the world of a funny actor? Can't we just take out or anger on Avril Lavigne instead. Then we could do something about that awful music too.

 

[musicaleCA]

Anyone can take a point and shoot, stand in the isle and flash the bride in the face from 3 feet away and call themselves a wedding photographer. I've seen that with my own eyes.

Oh my gods. Tell me that isn't true. Please. I think it's fair to say that no wedding photographer would shoot with a P&S...unless their primary and back-up bodies broke...both theirs and any other shooter's bodies...and they couldn't rent another easily...Oi vey.

Agreed regarding the ads. But they're trying to sell their product, which means they couldn't say something like "Oh, our older models like the 350D would be just fine in the hands of a pro, or anyone else who really knows what they're doing. Lighting is what really matters anyway, so go spend money on lighting equipment and not our shiny new cameras and lenses. And look at Avril Lavigne on our posters while you're at it; if we have her endorsing our products then it must be good." *shudders* Sometimes, I don't like that the word "Canon" is on my camera. Oh well...

Edit: Hah! I didn't read your post before posting this Garbz, but it's funny that we thought of the same thing.

 

[manaheim]

Perhaps another way to look at it...

Consider plumbers, electricians, carpenters, masons...

All of these people are skilled laborers, and all of them will generally apprentice with someone who knows what they are doing before going out on their own to do. Why? Pretty simply because the things they work on (people's homes, for example) are important, and doing something wrong on someone's home could risk fire, electrocution, flood, total structural collapse, etc.

Now yeah, we all certainly go out and do some of this stuff on our own... hell, I'm in the process of rebuilding my deck right now... however, this is on my home, and it's not like I have to get it done in a confined period of time, and if I screw it up I will pay the price... and what's more is if I screw it up, I can knock it down and start over again.

With a wedding, there really is no do-over, and you're risking someone elses big day.

So... why not use the same model for photography? The same model applies... you want to be a wedding photog? Awesome! Go apprentice with someone who knows what they are doing. You will actually wind up better off for it in the long run, you will learn a lot more, and you get into it at a far lower risk to those you are selling your services to.

Anyway, I'm not attempting to go off on anyone here... people do what they like and the market will bear what the market will bear... I'm just offering another perspective on this age-old discussion.

 

[table1349]

Anyone can take a point and shoot, stand in the isle and flash the bride in the face from 3 feet away and call themselves a wedding photographer. I've seen that with my own eyes.

Oh my gods. Tell me that isn't true. Please. I think it's fair to say that no wedding photographer would shoot with a P&S...unless their primary and back-up bodies broke...both theirs and any other shooter's bodies...and they couldn't rent another easily...Oi vey.

Agreed regarding the ads. But they're trying to sell their product, which means they couldn't say something like "Oh, our older models like the 350D would be just fine in the hands of a pro, or anyone else who really knows what they're doing. Lighting is what really matters anyway, so go spend money on lighting equipment and not our shiny new cameras and lenses. And look at Avril Lavigne on our posters while you're at it; if we have her endorsing our products then it must be good." *shudders* Sometimes, I don't like that the word "Canon" is on my camera. Oh well...

Edit: Hah! I didn't read your post before posting this Garbz, but it's funny that we thought of the same thing.

It ain't the gear that is the most important thing, it is the knowledge, skill and ability of the person behind the camera. There has been more than one very accomplished and famous photographer that has gone out with point & shoots both digital and in the film days and done stunning much admired work. Some have even published whole books based on those projects.

Keep in mind that there are different levels of expectation out there. That translates to different markets. Face it, if all of our expectations were the same everyone of us would have nothing but L glass or the Nikon equivelant sitting in our bags. If you don't right now, why not? For one simple reason. Money. Money guides our expectations.

There is a lack of honesty in this world these days. Honesty with ourselves and in the business world honesty with the customer or the business person.

If a photographer is honest with themselves they should know when they have a marketable product. They also market their abilities honestly and evaluate jobs before they take them. As a business person you are not hurting yourself by turning down a job if you just are not competent to do that job. You are doing yourself and that customer a favor. If a want to be photographer isn't ready then they need to be honest with themselves and either get the training or find a different line of work. Maybe next year or a couple of years down the road you will be competent and then you don't turn down a similar job.

Customer have to be honest with themselves as well. They have to do their research, talk to the those potential service providers and understand what they are going to get. They have to quit expecting a silk purse at a sow's ear price. We have become a society of "it's all about me" for a lack of a better term. People want everything for nothing. Reality needs to come into play a bit more.

I have found that for the most part the photographers, and other business people, that squawk the most about cheaper providers usually don't want to take the time and effort to show that they are better than those cheaper providers. The ones that aren't squawking are already doing that and are booked up by those that expect the kinds of results that they provide.

I used to laugh about a certain photographer in our area that shoots senior portraits. She is using kit glass and a Rebel XTI. Her second shooter is using a crossover P&S. I can sit here and tell you exactly every shot that they are going to take on every shoot. They are all the same. She knows those shots by heart, poses, background etc. Get her out of that little world and she would fall apart. She is a rock bottom priced photographer for senior portraits only.

I don't laugh anymore. I used to hear some of the other photographers complain about her and I asked them what their complaints were. After listening to their tirade about her I would ask them if they were willing to do the same job for her clients at the same pay. To a person they all said no.

She has found a niche and she fills it. Her clients don't have any money. They are just trying not to appear as poor as they are. Some kids get nice high dollar senior portraits done. Well these kids can't afford that. They don't want to be left out of something that eveyone does, so they get their pictures from her. But at least they have some senior portraits. They don't expect an Annie Lebowitz portrait. They are just happy to have some pictures that are better than the ones their mom can take with her cell phone.

Like I said, I don't laugh anymore. She knows her limitations and works within them and her clients are happy with what they get. She doesn't try to do things she doen't have the knowlege, skill and experinece to do.

Photography as a business is just that. A BUSINESS. You have to be a phtographer and a business person. Leave one of them out of the equation or fail to put enough work into one of them and you will surely fail in the long run. Perhaps what needs to be done is more work on the business side. A good business person knows, just like the woman I spoke about, what their limitations are and strives to overcome those limitations.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[manaheim]

^^^ nicely said.

 

[mrodgers]

Anyone can take a point and shoot, stand in the isle and flash the bride in the face from 3 feet away and call themselves a wedding photographer. I've seen that with my own eyes.

Oh my gods. Tell me that isn't true. Please. I think it's fair to say that no wedding photographer would shoot with a P&S...unless their primary and back-up bodies broke...both theirs and any other shooter's bodies...and they couldn't rent another easily...Oi vey.

I was at a wedding 2 Saturdays ago. It was stupidly loud with everyone's little compact P&S camera's making that stupid shutter sound and all the flashes going off, but.....

The lady behind us kept running up the aisle and snapping what appeared to be this (pink Casio Exilim, if you don't want to click) . I never saw a photographer and asked my wife if they didn't have one or if they just did a shoot before the ceremony. She asked if I noticed the lady behind us. I said, what, the lady with the Canon film SLR? Nope, the lady that kept running up in the aisle with the Casio P&S, that was the photographer.

If you are going to do weddings as a photographer, at least choose a better P&S camera than an $89 Casio.....