Not quite 4,000...

[SonnarSphere]

interesting thread. i have been on and off this forum since it started (Dial-Up Lhama). apparently
thats 2003 but i thought it was earlier...like 2001/2002 did it change ownership? anyhow...like
hundreds of people here who post/lurk i've been into photography for decades. also thousands of
hours of 'post-production/'pre-press' whatever you term it. i'm not the slightest bit interested in
'critique' absolutely ZERO interest in critical value judgements which are incompatible with a spirit
of subjective freedom. i'm unimpressed by a post-count and i can see someone has a photoshop
guru scoutbadge - whoopee-doo!

i do like conversations which stem from the subjectivity of images and i like discussions/anecdotes
about operational techniques and obscure information about cameras and optics.

i'd share a picture for fun. also i see many many great photos that are completely ignored on
this forum in the past.

when i see any merit in a picture i will encourage it. i will refrain from critique also if i sense it
is beyond the capability of the poster to understand. if a beginner posts something then put
yourself in his/her shoes and remember that it's a lifelong pursuit and the magic of general
photography is something profound when you are a novice and don't crush that seed..
try to see the purpose in a mediocre photo. greatness comes from encouragement not derision.

if you want to belong to an elite forum, try photofurm.ru. it's good - very good standards. you
will gradually be judged over time and considered for promotion to membership. and there is
ipernity which blows flickr out of the water for community interaction. hundreds of excellent,
global photographers who hardly ever critique anything. they teach by showing. and people learn
by copying whatever attracts them.

if i post pictures without any sharpening, processed at 5200kelvin regardless of time of day etc.
its because i want to. not because i dont know how to dodge/burn/blend/gradient map etc.
there are some rude ignorant people here who i know would lack the experience to discern that.
at best those people will ignore the things i might share. that's a good working relationship.


i hope this forum continues for years to come. it is essentially a very good place.

 

[Blank]

thats the best reply i've seen on this thread so far.

 

[Chiller]

interesting thread. i have been on and off this forum since it started (Dial-Up Lhama). apparently
thats 2003 but i thought it was earlier...like 2001/2002 did it change ownership? anyhow...like
hundreds of people here who post/lurk i've been into photography for decades. also thousands of
hours of 'post-production/'pre-press' whatever you term it. i'm not the slightest bit interested in
'critique' absolutely ZERO interest in critical value judgements which are incompatible with a spirit
of subjective freedom. i'm unimpressed by a post-count and i can see someone has a photoshop
guru scoutbadge - whoopee-doo!

i do like conversations which stem from the subjectivity of images and i like discussions/anecdotes
about operational techniques and obscure information about cameras and optics.

i'd share a picture for fun. also i see many many great photos that are completely ignored on
this forum in the past.

when i see any merit in a picture i will encourage it. i will refrain from critique also if i sense it
is beyond the capability of the poster to understand. if a beginner posts something then put
yourself in his/her shoes and remember that it's a lifelong pursuit and the magic of general
photography is something profound when you are a novice and don't crush that seed..
try to see the purpose in a mediocre photo. greatness comes from encouragement not derision.

if you want to belong to an elite forum, try photofurm.ru. it's good - very good standards. you
will gradually be judged over time and considered for promotion to membership. and there is
ipernity which blows flickr out of the water for community interaction. hundreds of excellent,
global photographers who hardly ever critique anything. they teach by showing. and people learn
by copying whatever attracts them.

if i post pictures without any sharpening, processed at 5200kelvin regardless of time of day etc.
its because i want to. not because i dont know how to dodge/burn/blend/gradient map etc.
there are some rude ignorant people here who i know would lack the experience to discern that.
at best those people will ignore the things i might share. that's a good working relationship.


i hope this forum continues for years to come. it is essentially a very good place.

I hope everyone reads your response.I agree 100% This forum needs more people with your attitude. :thumbup::thumbup:

 

[SonnarSphere]

thanks very much Blank. thanks very much Chiller. (!)

 

[adamwilliamking]

I deleted all my user CP stuff today and will no longer be taking part @ thephotoforum.com

Alot of photographers on here have their heads up their ass and the funny part is they really are not that good, no offense to anyone here but I have some pretty amazing mentors and nothing on this forum has ever come close to what I would consider A+ photography. Anyways, point is, most of this forum has their heads up their ass, I'm out.

Just noticed this and wanted to actually thank you personally, Manaheim, for being one of the only users on the forum to actually follow my posts to some degree and offer consistent feedback. Too bad the ratio is a million to one.

Peace out ya'll!

 

[Chris of Arabia]

thats the best reply i've seen on this thread so far.

I just wish I'd had the language skills to express things that way myself

 

[manaheim]

So, mods... how open are you to varying things up a bit? Some options on the table have been...

- add some moderators
- create some different groupings of posts/categories
- have some more strict moderation in some spaces
- etc.

I mean, Mike, you seem semi-open, but I don't know that we explicitly know what we're willing to do?

 

[manaheim]

BTW, for anyone who has been reading this, please note the Pact thread referenced in my signature. One way to try to help things out that seems to be gaining some popularity as a concept.

 

[Big Mike]

So, mods... how open are you to varying things up a bit? Some options on the table have been...

- add some moderators
- create some different groupings of posts/categories
- have some more strict moderation in some spaces
- etc.

I mean, Mike, you seem semi-open, but I don't know that we explicitly know what we're willing to do?

Firstly, we mods are just mods...we don't own the forum, nor do we make the decisions on how the forum is laid out, how it is run etc. There is a 'chain of command' and we aren't on the top rung, so to speak.

If you have some actual ideas for the forum, put them in the feedback forum...that's the first step. The key point is that for an idea to really be taken seriously, it has to have some thought put into it, with some suggestions on how to follow though on it.

Keep in mind that it's still a very small minority of members who are 'demanding change'. I'm not saying that you need to 'drum up support'...but keep in mind that any ideas need to take thought for the forum as a whole...not just the little clique that likes to speak out.

The bottom line is that we can't please all of the people, all of the time. It's inevitable that some people will get fed up and leave...it happens all the time...it's not a big deal, we get quite a few new members everyday. And when people go to the trouble to 'announce' that they are leaving...I just roll my eyes

 

[SonnarSphere]

i've 'announced' i was leaving..i'm sure somewhere/some place before. it's daft..and ironic
if you think about it. you'd only announce it if you felt you actually belong to it. otherwise
you'd just click X and forget about it.

i remember henri cartier bresson was mortified when i said 'ok, that's it! no more
decisive moments from ME!, you can keep eat your silly beret..i'm outa here!'

 

[JerryPH]

When people announce that they are leaving, in general it is not for the drama moment, it is to make the statement that they've tried and did not succeed and wanted people to feel their frustration and know why they left. If they did not care, they would just click and leave (like in the case of many of the senior and very talented members who no longer post). This is not something to roll one's eyes at. Yes, when people leave and don't even say a word... it is becuase they are far PAST caring, past frustration, and as important as the people screaming that they are leaving, the ones that do not say a thing are equally important in pointing out that there is a serious issue that needs attention... now. They are just so far past caring that they don't even make the gesture of an announcement, they are past making that small effort becuase TPF is not even worth that anymore. It has sunk so low that even the most base reaction, becuase in their eyes it is a waste of effort to do so. They are voting with their feet instead of like some here, that are not voting, but asking for change and for help with their posts.

A point to consider; When these members in good standing (people with experience that new members come here for in the first place), leave, with and/or without the drama, sure there are 20 more new members that come in behind them... but what has happened to the club? As a whole, the club lost a valuable and knowledgeable member over and over... not just one, but during the time I have been here, at least a good 2 dozen core knowledgeable members have left... replaced by hundreds of Mr or Ms "what lens and/or camera do I need to buy..." kinds of users. That is *not* going to make this place better, not this kind of mentality.

Now, if that is what TPF wants, then they are going in the right direction, just sit back and let it happen... but I really hope that this is not what the owners of TPF really want, not what they wanted when they first opened shop years ago.

It is cool that Mike posts the other side of the fence, representing the mods/owners, and he is right, no matter what they do, never will everyone be 100% happy. But that is not the point here, I think that if the owners of TPF care about this place and want it to go up a notch instead of dropping down 2, they will listen and acknowledge that there *is* something bad happening and try to address a very serious issue here and also let their voices be heard a little stronger than they have been in the past.

Mike suggested that a very small percentage of people are complaining or asking for change, but let's look at that for a moment... and I think that we will see that this low percentage group is doing a lot more for TPF as a club than all those other 10,000 silent members who never post, never participate, but are part of the silent majority as numbers in the database of users.

I'm not picking on you Mike, you're a stand-up guy and I have a ton of respect for you (you are the most active of all the mods!), but I hope that not all that you said is what the owners really feel. If it is, why are they wasting their time? Just closer the doors or pass the reigns on to someone who cares a little more.

That is drastic as hell, and I know that... it was meant to raise an eyebrow and maybe get a couple of key people "upstairs" thinking, because the solution in real life is a LOT simpler and doesn't need to be anywhere close to that drastic nor dramatic. It does entail responding to the request for help that this small percentage of people are asking for, though.

 

[Hawaii Five-O]

i hope this forum continues for years to come. it is essentially a very good place.

That was a good post you made:thumbup:

 

[Tasmaster]

My two cents:

A lot of this seems to revolve around one issue: begginers vs advanced users - pros. It is not elitism, but trying to cater for both groups ends up helping none of them, so a more focused, more obvious direction for the forum would be appreciated. This is obviously a big decision for whoever has to make it, as it means that one of these groups will be excluded. The moderator team will play a big part in putting this in practice.

As of the current state of things, i would prefer to see any direction over no direction at all. I also believe that it is possible to get the best of both words with a careful re-organisation of the sub-forum structure.

A few details:

Having been away for a while, i have seen a shift in quality, subjective as it may be, of the material posted. Less photographs draw my eye, and i see more unremarkable photos, often with unremarkable comments.

For what it's worth, i have no idea what the moderators do on this forum, other than being nice and friendly most of the time. Let me direct you to another forum that i like: RelicNews Forums - powered by vBulletin It is a gaming forum, so i guess a lot of you won't know it or won't get it, but there is one thing that stounds out. Moderation is nothing less than stellar. It is active, as strict as needed, efficient and helpful. There are no such things as duplicate threads, not every sub-forum allows off-topic posting, and if you don't follow the rules you are warned and suspended or banned after multiple warnings. The whole thing runs smooth and everyone is happy.

To return to my opening point, the relicnews.com forum can do all that because it is focused. While the source material is a lot less generic than "photography", that forum is still host to a very diverse community and all kinds of discussions take place. It is my opinion that a similar direction would benefit The Photo Forum a lot.

I can't decide if 'The Pact' is an idealized version of how a photography forum should be (and possibly very hard to make work), or just a good start (which it sounds like anyway).

 

[Big Mike]

It's been my experience that, for the most part, when a member posts a dramatic 'I'm leaving' post...they usually come back...if only to see what people have to say about them in their (seemingly) absence. Several of them end up posting replies to their own 'last post'...and some just come back like nothing happened.

Basically, I'm see them as a cry for attention...and I don't have time to indulge them and beg them to stay...which seems to be what some of them want.

I'm not picking on anyone in particular here...just my experience from the last 5-6 years around here.

Yes, I agree that this place is better off when the 'experienced' members continue to hang around and they can't just be replaced by the newbs...but we also have to accept that as a forum grows, it becomes less important (and less feasible) to go out of the way to accommodate individuals....experienced or not.

I think I mentioned it before...but the idea of this (and many other) forums is that it is to be largely 'Member Driven'. That doesn't mean that the mods/admin have to make wholesale changes everytime the 'club' has an issue. It means that they should lead by example...and if the herd follows, then that's the way it goes. We (the mods) are just here in enforce the rules.

Again, I'm all for change...but lets see some solid idea besides 'add more mods'.

 

[Dagwood56]

Perhaps someone should review this thread now and take just the list of "fix ideas" whether it be all of them or those the op feels are the best in the thread and do what one of the mods has suggested - post them on the feedback forum...perhaps one of the mods could even PM someone in Admin and ask them to read the list. Then the ideas are posted here, in feedback, and then we have the pact links in member sigs as well - If nothing else it might get the word out to more\those members who don't look on this board. Just a thought.