Compact MF cameras?

[earthmanbuck]

I've been wanting to get into medium format for the last little while, and while I have picked up a couple cameras (Mamiya M645 & Airesflex TLR), I haven't really had a chance to use either yet. It's been very, very cold up here, and neither camera is practical for slipping in and out of a jacket...and my apartment has about the worst lighting of any manmade space I have yet encountered, so indoor shooting is also difficult.

So anyway, I've been thinking about maybe getting a smaller medium format camera as something easier to carry around—and I also don't have much experience with rangefinders, so it's kind of a two-birds-one-stone situation as far as trying new stuff goes. I was hoping you folks might have some recommendations of models I could look into (or ones I should avoid), as my generic eBay browsing is a slow process.

Some things to consider:
- I'm not going to spend a ton, I'm just trying to find something that works and is decent.
- A coupled rangefinder would be ideal, but I recognize that might not be possible for what I'm willing to spend.
- I'm not picky about size—645, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9 are all cool with me.
- I'd prefer a lens with a focal length pretty close to the eye's natural view, which if I understand correctly is around 80mm for MF.
- Folding cameras seem like a good solution as far as size goes, but how sturdy do bellows tend to be? Are folding cameras more susceptible to getting fogged up by cold?
- One I've seen come up a lot on eBay is the Agfa Isolette—anyone have any experience with these?

Thanks in advance!

 

[compur]

The Isolette is OK if you just want to try folding camera but its build quality is at a minimum level, the bellows often need repair or replacement and the focusing is almost always frozen due to the grease that Agfa used on them which turns rock hard with age.

The Zeiss folders (Ikonta, Nettar, etc) are generally better quality and more likely to be working OK. The Super Ikonta has a rangefinder but is usually pretty pricey as are most folding cameras with rangefinders.

Above is a photo of a Japanese folder that I own and have used and I recommend it. It's called the Zenobia by Daiichi Kogaku. It is about as compact as any medium format folder. Build quality is quite good and the lens is a nice 4-element type similar to the Zeiss Tessar and good shutter with a full range of speeds to 1/500. It's not well known so prices are often very reasonable and there are usually some on eBay at any given time. It is compact and provides a 645 format image.

 

[john.margetts]

Some things to consider:
- I'm not going to spend a ton, I'm just trying to find something that works and is decent.
- A coupled rangefinder would be ideal, but I recognize that might not be possible for what I'm willing to spend.
- I'm not picky about size—645, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9 are all cool with me.
- I'd prefer a lens with a focal length pretty close to the eye's natural view, which if I understand correctly is around 80mm for MF.
- Folding cameras seem like a good solution as far as size goes, but how sturdy do bellows tend to be? Are folding cameras more susceptible to getting fogged up by cold?
- One I've seen come up a lot on eBay is the Agfa Isolette—anyone have any experience with these?

Thanks in advance!

1) normal focal lengths for medium format are 75 mm for 6 x 4/5 , 80 mm for 6 x 6 , 110 mm for 6 x 9

2) bellows vary according to make. Zeiss Ikon and Voigtlander bellows are tough and I have never come across defective one, dating back to cameras made in the 1920s. Agfa bellows are not so good and many of the 1950s Agfa I have seen have had defective bellows. You can check bellows in a darkish room and a torch.

 

[john.margetts]

Compur is right about Agfa's infamous green grease. It sets like concrete in time, making focusing impossible.

 

[earthmanbuck]

1) normal focal lengths for medium format are 75 mm for 6 x 4/5 , 80 mm for 6 x 6 , 110 mm for 6 x 9

Ah yes, thanks—the majority of what I had been looking up were 6x6, so I guess the 80mm stuck in my brain early.

 

[webestang64]

Voigtlander bellows are tough

I really like my Voigtlander, got it along with 3 other cameras and a light meter for $35. Works perfect with no light leaks.

 

[jcdeboever]

Look up Certo 6, he has very good cameras that are gone through. Drop him an email, give him a budget, he will get back to you pretty quick. He is top notch and won't kill you on price. He goes through everything he sells.

 

[SoulfulRecover]

I don't know what your price point is but the Mamiya 6 or 7, Fuji GSW69o, Fuji GA645ZI, or Plaubel Makina 670 would be the route I would go

 

[earthmanbuck]

I don't know what your price point is but the Mamiya 6 or 7, Fuji GSW69o, Fuji GA645ZI, or Plaubel Makina 670 would be the route I would go

I was looking into all of these, and for the most part they are well beyond my price range—though it is nice to have something to drool over until I win the lottery. There are a couple Mamiya 6s on eBay for fairly cheap, though, so that is an option.

I put a fairly low bid in for a Voigtlander Bessa RF, so I'll see what comes of that...but it's great to have a better idea of what to be looking for if that falls through. Thanks everyone, and further recommendations are also welcome!

 

[jcdeboever]

I don't know what your price point is but the Mamiya 6 or 7, Fuji GSW69o, Fuji GA645ZI, or Plaubel Makina 670 would be the route I would go

I have the Fujifilm GA645Zi but it is not so good for manual focus, very odd to say the least. Other than that, super. It's basically a travel point and shoot,mexium format.

 

[jcdeboever]

I have a Agfa Isolette 2 and it is a good imager. It's zone focus only but you can put a ranger finder on the cold shoe if your not into zone focusing.

 

[dxqcanada]

I've got a Voigtlander Bessa 46 and a Mamiya Six that I am going to sell off ... fixed them up but not put a roll through them.
The 46 is uncoupled, while the Six is a coupled rangefinder.

 

[cgw]

Walk-around MF cameras are mostly relics that were never made to stand up to heavy, long-term use. Pro level Mamiya 645/6x7 and Bronica 645/6x6 were and are likely to be in better shape if you shop carefully. You might get lucky with an old folder but the fore-mentioned brands with interchangeable lenses and backs are simply more durable. Most are tripod cameras since they earned their keep in studios. Frankly, if you want that sort of IQ in a small form factor, then you should be looking at digital not crusty old roll film cameras. Been there but YMMV, as usual.

 

[john.margetts]

Zeiss Ikon only made durable cameras. If anything, they were over engineered. I have yet to come across a faulty Zeiss Ikon camera amongst the dozen or so I have in my collection. My oldest Zeiss folder is from 1926 and is in excellent condition.

As far as image quality goes, medium format film produces a very high mage quality - it is different to anything digital can produce and certainly not inferior.

 

[limr]

Zeiss Ikon only made durable cameras. If anything, they were over engineered. I have yet to come across a faulty Zeiss Ikon camera amongst the dozen or so I have in my collection. My oldest Zeiss folder is from 1926 and is in excellent condition.

As far as image quality goes, medium format film produces a very high mage quality - it is different to anything digital can produce and certainly not inferior.

A-yup. Totally agree.