Drunk Bully gets one hit KO'd

[Byrin]

It didn't look to me like anybody's life was threatened - that's usually a qualifier for the use of deadly force.

It's obvious he did not use deadly force, however he did use the necessary force to neutralize the threat. The drunk continued to be a menace and so he was stopped. I do believe everyone present is to blame because all they had to do was walk away. I doubt the drunk would have followed anyone.

 

[Josh66]

It didn't look to me like anybody's life was threatened - that's usually a qualifier for the use of deadly force.

It's obvious he did not use deadly force, however he did use the necessary force to neutralize the threat. The drunk continued to be a menace and so he was stopped. I do believe everyone present is to blame because all they had to do was walk away. I doubt the drunk would have followed anyone.

It's easier than you think to kill someone by punching them in the head.

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

"Personal weapons" (hands, feet, etc.) ranks surprisingly high.

edit
More tables here:
FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data

 

[JacaRanda]

I can only imagine a defense attorney for the idiot bully, arguing that he posed no serious danger to anyone. He was drunk and he was a clown dancing around like he was Ali. The first two victims not having to, but could have removed themselves from the situation. I know they did not want confrontation, but they did not immediately leave the scene. The bully did turn his back on them giving the opportunity

That scenario would not be popular as most of us agree he got what he deserved. However, without witnesses and just viewing the video, the bully and the sucker puncher both would be in deep poo poo. The sucker puncher maybe worse!

I'd be interested to see how all this played out.

 

[Byrin]

It's easier than you think to kill someone by punching them in the head.

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

"Personal weapons" (hands, feet, etc.) ranks surprisingly high.

edit
More tables here:
FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data

I agree with you that it is very easy to kill someone with a punch to the head. I'm a witness to such a thing happening. I was saying that I don't think he was intentionally trying to use deadly force but just the same measure of force to neutralize the threat and try to be a hero. Like I said it all could have been avoided in many ways and unfortunately it wasn't. I personally would have walked away, in my line of work I have plenty of more threats to worry about then a drunk trying to fight.

 

[jake337]

WEAK!!!!!

Weak on both sides.

 

[Josh66]

It's easier than you think to kill someone by punching them in the head.

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

"Personal weapons" (hands, feet, etc.) ranks surprisingly high.

edit
More tables here:
FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data

I agree with you that it is very easy to kill someone with a punch to the head. I'm a witness to such a thing happening. I was saying that I don't think he was intentionally trying to use deadly force but just the same measure of force to neutralize the threat and try to be a hero. Like I said it all could have been avoided in many ways and unfortunately it wasn't. I personally would have walked away, in my line of work I have plenty of more threats to worry about then a drunk trying to fight.

Agreed. Obviously, he was not trying to kill the guy. Still, I'm not sure that a few slaps warrants knocking a guy out. Yeah, the guy was an ass and he probably did deserve what he got - but the guy that sucker-punched him is just as much of an ass. Both of them are certainly guilty of assault, at least.

There are so many other (less violent) ways the situation could have been resolved...

 

[Ballistics]

It didn't look to me like anybody's life was threatened - that's usually a qualifier for the use of deadly force.

It's obvious he did not use deadly force, however he did use the necessary force to neutralize the threat. The drunk continued to be a menace and so he was stopped. I do believe everyone present is to blame because all they had to do was walk away. I doubt the drunk would have followed anyone.

I wanted to use the deadly force argument, but it would have been another long drawn out argument regarding opinion because you can find precedence where people haven't been found to use deadly force by punching someone in the head, but since someone else brought it up...

A blow to the head IS deadly force. In my LE days in the Navy, we were not allowed to strike in the head or choke. Putting someone out with an RNC is consider deadly force.
Taken directly from memory and not googled:

Deadly force is the force a person uses, that knows or should know, that would cause death or serious bodily harm.

I must have recited that line 500 times, when approached by a section leader and drilled about general orders and what could be considered deadly force. Striking (punching or kicking) in the head is considered deadly force.

 

[Josh66]

What is an RNC? I'm guessing it's a choke hold or something, but all I'm seeing is Republican National Convention.

 

[Michael79]

Rear naked choke

 

[Josh66]

I had to look that up. That is what I have known as a "sleeper hold" till now.

 

[Michael79]

I had to look that up. That is what I have known as a "sleeper hold" till now.

Right, which is why I find it weird to be considered deadly force. I mean I know you could suffocate people to death, but is it deadly force if you use it to put them to sleep?

 

[Josh66]

Well, from what I read (when I looked it up, just now - I'm no expert, lol), it seems to take a bit of skill/experience to know when to let go - or you certainly can kill someone, rather than just render them unconscious. You are cutting off the blood supply to the brain with that hold.

 

[duhast]

Deadly force is the force a person uses, that knows or should know, that would cause death or serious bodily harm.

I must have recited that line 500 times, when approached by a section leader and drilled about general orders and what could be considered deadly force. Striking (punching or kicking) in the head is considered deadly force.

Then, was not the drunk using deadly force?

 

[Josh66]

Deadly force is the force a person uses, that knows or should know, that would cause death or serious bodily harm.

I must have recited that line 500 times, when approached by a section leader and drilled about general orders and what could be considered deadly force. Striking (punching or kicking) in the head is considered deadly force.

Then, was not the drunk using deadly force?

You're joking, right? He slapped some people a few times... Yes - he's an *******, but he wasn't causing "serious bodily harm" to anyone. Well, maybe more of a 'jab' than a slap, but still not quite a punch... The reaction of the guy he hit looked more like "WTF?!" than anything else.

 

[usayit]

LOLololo

a bunch of arm chair lawyers here.

The bully deserved every bit of what he got..... Well.... except those that took shots at him once he was down. That was wrong. They should at least turn his head to make sure he doesnt choke on his tongue.

BTW.... there are cases in which US laws regarding to the right to self defense EXTENDS to the defense of others as well. You youself does not need to be the target of assault in order to act. Whether that applies here is not my call...