DSLR for Videos? Old-time Dilema, Again.

[brunerww]

Marlene Hielema did a blog post on this very topic with side-by-side photos and video: ISO Noise Comparison: Lumix GH3 and Canon 5D Mk2 : DiscoverMirrorless.com

Hope this is helpful.

 

[TehYoyo]

You like low light... until you have to shoot handheld in it lol.

Anyways, I think if you're gonna get a full frame sensor (which you won't with $800), you might wanna check out the D600/800. Those have great low-light performance.

 

[brunerww]

You like low light... until you have to shoot handheld in it lol.

Anyways, I think if you're gonna get a full frame sensor (which you won't with $800), you might wanna check out the D600/800. Those have great low-light performance.

As I recall, she is an aspiring doc shooter with a $1000 budget and these are cameras with slow and noisy video autofocus that cost $2000-$3000. Your A57 or a GH2 are probably better choices.

 

[MidEastGal]

Brunerww, Thank you for replying.

TehYoyo, same as what Brunerww said ... Thanks for the suggestions, though. All learning experience when any one suggests anything. The price in this case is the major deterrant, of course.

I am kind of still leaning towards the A57 mainly for price and the local store guy recommendation. He said some professionals use it as their backup. Anyways still researching.

You like low light... until you have to shoot handheld in it lol.

Anyways, I think if you're gonna get a full frame sensor (which you won't with $800), you might wanna check out the D600/800. Those have great low-light performance.

As I recall, she is an aspiring doc shooter with a $1000 budget and these are cameras with slow and noisy video autofocus that cost $2000-$3000. Your A57 or a GH2 are probably better choices.

 

[MidEastGal]

Guys, I am flying to another city in Canada for a medical procedure I have to get done. I was thinking of filiming my experience as it's related to a documentary I aspire to be able to make very soon. It matters to me personally.

Now seems I cannot make up my mind before my trip (Thursday!---yes, 3 weeks I was optimistic I will find one and learn how to use it before trip. Don't judge. :er: :study: :thumbdown:

Anyways, the important thing now is the story. I want to capture what happens in that trip and if need be even on my iPhone. But do you guys have advice? Can I for example use my Canon Power Shot Sx30 (fancy point and shoot with very high zoom :meh? Later, if I made a decent documentary with a new camera, would it be fine to put the trip scene shot on a not so decent camera?

I am babbling...

 

[MidEastGal]

Check out this A57 video on Vimeo! This looks quite amazing.

[video=vimeo;40573835]http://vimeo.com/40573835[/video]

 

[MidEastGal]

Ok to continue talking about the Sony Alpha A57, I will ask your opinion about the price range and teh lense available with a packagae at my local store:

- $650 for body and 18-55mm lens
- $830 for body and 18-55mm lens, and 55-200mm f/4-5.6 SAM Telephoto zoom lens - SAL552002

I checked ebay and there are lower bids but not used to buying expensive stuff from there and cannot afford to regret to save 100ish.
Is the telephoto lens price reasonable and is it advisable to get them both Sony or shall I research lenses more before?

 

[skyy38]

I agree, rexbobcat - there are no statistical studies. That said, several people I respect have switched (e.g., dvxuser.com Canon moderator M. Gilden has pretty much switched for video, Will Crockett and several of the photographers at discovermirrorless have switched for stills and video or declared that their current DSLRs are the last ones they're ever going to buy

OK, now you're pushing it. GH2 is great value and terrific for video, but to say (or imply as you did here) that it's better than a DSLR in general is crazy. For one thing, you're going to be stuck with electronic viewfinder, slow focusing, poor low light performance, and large depth of field. I suppose you can get by with manual focus, but depth of field in particular tends to be a big deal to indie filmmakers whose primary goal in life is to make their video look like film, and the most brain-dead way to get there is to use shallow depth of field.

Sekhr, Thanks for your reply above about the stills. I will check images on Flickr. And thanks for your second message here on the depth of field. I certainly want my films to look like films I have to read and watch more on that, I confess.

A good start is here:

Looking for film look? Shoot like film! - Creative COW

The second thing to do is pick up a DVD of "Butch Cassidy And The Sundance Kid"-No tape copies in FullScreen. The late great Conrad Hall was a Jedi Master of Cinematography and this movie was his magnum opus. If you haven't seen it in awhile, go ahead and watch it for entertainment. THEN, the next time, watch it again with the volume OFF-This method is still used in film schools ( I hope ) so that students don't get distracted by sound, they're just concentrating on the visuals and how they're executed.

The third time you watch this, activate the commentary by the Director and Cinematographer of this movie. Some of which Mr. Hall says might seem strictly "filmic" but there is a LOT of good info that ANYONE can use, film or video. Almost forgot, do NOT miss the documentary because more cine knowledge is revealed there too.

Take your camera and your sticks out one nice Saturday and shoot anything and everything. Pretend like you're doing second unit for a big movie and shoot accordingly, keeping in mind what you saw in the movie. See if you can shoot some shots from the movie-replicating them as best you can in your own backyard. It is very good practice to do so, because it keeps your mind on the artistic side as well.

 

[TehYoyo]

You like low light... until you have to shoot handheld in it lol.

Anyways, I think if you're gonna get a full frame sensor (which you won't with $800), you might wanna check out the D600/800. Those have great low-light performance.

As I recall, she is an aspiring doc shooter with a $1000 budget and these are cameras with slow and noisy video autofocus that cost $2000-$3000. Your A57 or a GH2 are probably better choices.

No I was just saying that if we're gonna discuss real low-light performance, that's what she should look at... which is why I stuck in "which you won't with $800".

Ok to continue talking about the Sony Alpha A57, I will ask your opinion about the price range and teh lense available with a packagae at my local store:

- $650 for body and 18-55mm lens
- $830 for body and 18-55mm lens, and 55-200mm f/4-5.6 SAM Telephoto zoom lens - SAL552002

I checked ebay and there are lower bids but not used to buying expensive stuff from there and cannot afford to regret to save 100ish.
Is the telephoto lens price reasonable and is it advisable to get them both Sony or shall I research lenses more before?

That's pretty reasonable and expected for whatever brand you get (price-wise). As for whether or not you should get it, I wouldn't recommend it, at least not for this immediate trip (good luck, by the way). If you're doing a documentary-style about a surgery, I can't imagine you using more than a 55mm focal length, even if you're setting up the scene with surveying shots. However, if you think you'll be needing the telephoto length, then that's a fine beginner lens for you to get.

Side note, for lenses, I'd recommend buying them off Craiglist (it's site where you can meet people to buy/sell things - link for more. A lot of times, people post lenses for cheap b/c they don't know what they are - they found them, they got them from their grandpa, etc. etc. etc. I don't know what Canada has in that way. Also, garage sales (in the summer, if you don't mind waiting) offer similar bargains/steals. That's how I got my first two lenses (two for $50) for cheap. One of them is pretty standard in terms of quality, but the other is pleasantly sharp.

As for what camera you should use to record the trip, you can certainly use the Canon or iPhone but I guarantee that neither will come remotely close to the quality of a full-on DSLR/DSLM in 1080p.

 

[skyy38]

Brunerww, Thank you for such an informative reply especially with the comparison. I am amazed taht the time I am going to buy a DSLR is the time when there is such a heated debate about them and DSLM (Mirrorless). I kind like to go against the main stream, but in this one I am still a bit afaraid to head to mirrorless. Seems to me I have to pass through the DSLR then switch after that. (seems silly) but I feel I want to catch up with the historical development and own a DSLR. Maybe in the future I will buy a second one as a DSLM and keep both. I will need a backup in all cases and one will produce better images; the other better video support (I guess). I am not sure yet but this is what came to my mind after reading today's answers I received from you guys and the other readings on websites and comparing features.

I still will need any useful tips if anybody remembers a new idea to share! Still thinking. ...:er:

Hi MidEastGal - sadly, not a lot of people have experience shooting video with both DSLRs and DSLMs, so you will hear a lot of opinions that are somewhat less than well-informed. I have shot video and stills with both types of camera, and once people go high-end mirrorless, it is very rare for them to go back.

Here is a little video-centric matrix that may be helpful:

Canon DSLR: Clip limit - 12 to 30 minutes; Video autofocus - no (except T4i); Video viewfinder - no; Silent autofocus lenses - no

Sony DSLT ("T" is for Translucent Mirror): Clip limit - 30 min; Video autofocus - yes; Video viewfinder - yes; Silent autofocus lenses - no

Panasonic DSLM: Clip limit - hours; Video autofocus - yes; Video viewfinder - yes; Silent autofocus lenses - yes

DSLMs are not perfect cameras. Although my GH2 takes fabulous stills, my old T2i was a better still camera, in my view. But, as cameras designed from the ground up for video, they are a much better blend of still and video capability than legacy DSLRs. And they are lighter in weight, smaller in size, and often less expensive.

Here is what Will Crockett at discovermirrorless.com says of the new GH3:



Again, hope that is helpful!

Bill

P.S. - it's not me calling them DSLMs, it's Panasonic

P.P.S. - I didn't invent DSLT either

Does this mean that the DBLT is not far off?

 

[TehYoyo]

Does this mean that the DBLT is not far off?

Digital WHAT? Lens Translucent?

 

[skyy38]

Very impressed by this:

'One more time' by Trent Crews - Filmed on a Panasonic GH2 in Panasonic GH2 on Vimeo

..but the *hacked* version...? Blown away......

 

[MidEastGal]

Skyy38, Thank you for the tips. I like this Creative Cow magazine. Amazing techniques for filming.
I wonder, are you in the field of filming? Do you use specific camera?

OK, now you're pushing it. GH2 is great value and terrific for video, but to say (or imply as you did here) that it's better than a DSLR in general is crazy. For one thing, you're going to be stuck with electronic viewfinder, slow focusing, poor low light performance, and large depth of field. I suppose you can get by with manual focus, but depth of field in particular tends to be a big deal to indie filmmakers whose primary goal in life is to make their video look like film, and the most brain-dead way to get there is to use shallow depth of field.

Sekhr, Thanks for your reply above about the stills. I will check images on Flickr. And thanks for your second message here on the depth of field. I certainly want my films to look like films I have to read and watch more on that, I confess.

A good start is here:

Looking for film look? Shoot like film! - Creative COW

The second thing to do is pick up a DVD of "Butch Cassidy And The Sundance Kid"-No tape copies in FullScreen. The late great Conrad Hall was a Jedi Master of Cinematography and this movie was his magnum opus. If you haven't seen it in awhile, go ahead and watch it for entertainment. THEN, the next time, watch it again with the volume OFF-This method is still used in film schools ( I hope ) so that students don't get distracted by sound, they're just concentrating on the visuals and how they're executed.

The third time you watch this, activate the commentary by the Director and Cinematographer of this movie. Some of which Mr. Hall says might seem strictly "filmic" but there is a LOT of good info that ANYONE can use, film or video. Almost forgot, do NOT miss the documentary because more cine knowledge is revealed there too.

Take your camera and your sticks out one nice Saturday and shoot anything and everything. Pretend like you're doing second unit for a big movie and shoot accordingly, keeping in mind what you saw in the movie. See if you can shoot some shots from the movie-replicating them as best you can in your own backyard. It is very good practice to do so, because it keeps your mind on the artistic side as well.

 

[MidEastGal]

TehYoyo, Thank you. I understand what you meant; just was commenting. Thank you for the advice on the lens. I guess I will not need that one at all this trip or in near future. What I need is to start video taking and on the way will start collecting lenses as I need them for other effects. I have a question for you; other than the long length of the mirrorless, is there anything that can be done in mirrorless that a DSLR/T cannot do? Like these amazing videos shared below. I am seeing more and more professionals turning to the mirrorless.

You like low light... until you have to shoot handheld in it lol.

Anyways, I think if you're gonna get a full frame sensor (which you won't with $800), you might wanna check out the D600/800. Those have great low-light performance.

As I recall, she is an aspiring doc shooter with a $1000 budget and these are cameras with slow and noisy video autofocus that cost $2000-$3000. Your A57 or a GH2 are probably better choices.

No I was just saying that if we're gonna discuss real low-light performance, that's what she should look at... which is why I stuck in "which you won't with $800".

Ok to continue talking about the Sony Alpha A57, I will ask your opinion about the price range and teh lense available with a packagae at my local store:

- $650 for body and 18-55mm lens
- $830 for body and 18-55mm lens, and 55-200mm f/4-5.6 SAM Telephoto zoom lens - SAL552002

I checked ebay and there are lower bids but not used to buying expensive stuff from there and cannot afford to regret to save 100ish.
Is the telephoto lens price reasonable and is it advisable to get them both Sony or shall I research lenses more before?

That's pretty reasonable and expected for whatever brand you get (price-wise). As for whether or not you should get it, I wouldn't recommend it, at least not for this immediate trip (good luck, by the way). If you're doing a documentary-style about a surgery, I can't imagine you using more than a 55mm focal length, even if you're setting up the scene with surveying shots. However, if you think you'll be needing the telephoto length, then that's a fine beginner lens for you to get.

Side note, for lenses, I'd recommend buying them off Craiglist (it's site where you can meet people to buy/sell things - link for more. A lot of times, people post lenses for cheap b/c they don't know what they are - they found them, they got them from their grandpa, etc. etc. etc. I don't know what Canada has in that way. Also, garage sales (in the summer, if you don't mind waiting) offer similar bargains/steals. That's how I got my first two lenses (two for $50) for cheap. One of them is pretty standard in terms of quality, but the other is pleasantly sharp.

As for what camera you should use to record the trip, you can certainly use the Canon or iPhone but I guarantee that neither will come remotely close to the quality of a full-on DSLR/DSLM in 1080p.

 

[MidEastGal]

Skyy38, These are amazing! Do you use a GH2 yourself? I am again confused today between the both: Panasonic GH2 (DSLM) and Sony A57 (DSLR/T)! I thought yesterday that my mind is made up on the DSLR for now so that I take great stills too.

Very impressed by this:

'One more time' by Trent Crews - Filmed on a Panasonic GH2 in Panasonic GH2 on Vimeo

..but the *hacked* version...? Blown away......