Fencing photography advice for beginner

Yetij · Mar 13, 2016

Hi,

I have film background, but I'm kind of a newbie in photography in general.

Could you give me some advice how to take decent photos of, for example, fencing?

This is an indoor sport, the lighting is rather mediocre (good only at world class competitions), flash is not an option. Mainly I shoot from the side and a bit behind one fencer

I used Canon 5D Mark II with 24-70 2.8 canon lens.

It is pretty obvious how to set up ISO and shutter speed. The main problem is the aperture. 2.8 seems to have incredibly shallow depth of field - even one fencer wasn't fully sharp from one hand to the other. I ended up using 7.1. However, 7.1 and low shutter speed like 1/400 seem to produce quite underexposed pictures. I set ISO to 6400.

Basically, I need both fencers really sharp. Do I have good approach to aperture?

I attach one photo that looks quite good to me.

Designer · Mar 13, 2016

I've never done it, but I see the problem. Yes, I think the aperture needs to be stopped down, so as I see it you've got approximately two options: Add light, or increase sensitivity.

Purchase, beg or borrow a camera that has better performance in low light. OR

Haul in a small truckload of continuous lighting. Fluorescent or LED so you don't overheat the room.

Yetij · Mar 13, 2016

ok good to know that I'm on the right track, thanks.

How about the zoom? Shooting from greater distance and cropping it down should help the depth of field I believe.

tirediron · Mar 13, 2016

Yetij said:
ok good to know that I'm on the right track, thanks.

How about the zoom? Shooting from greater distance and cropping it down should help the depth of field I believe.

Bottom line is, shooting in gyms sucks. Period. I don't know a lot about the 5D II, but I believe is a pretty capable body, and the noise level seems fine in that image, but there are things you can do to help yourself. Shoot with a longer lens from a greater distance (70-200), and position yourself so that you don't have a huge bank of windows in the shot. These doubtless had a great effect on the appearance of the light, and to so extent the exposure as well.

dennybeall · Mar 13, 2016

In the film days if you couldn't get enough light you'd change to a faster film, same for digital but just change to a higher ISO. If you could get those big windows behind you it may help but all in all unless you want to buy some Fast Glass you'll have to settle for a bit of noise. In post you can also select the background and take out the noise which will make it more oof and hence less noticeable..

vintagesnaps · Mar 13, 2016

I noticed the windows too; I might try lowering the camera some and metering the area where they're fencing, then reframe the shot. Your camera's meter might have been reading that light coming in from the background.

I agree with John, indoor school gyms are about the worst lighting (and I'm glad I mostly do hockey where the ice reflects some light.) In a gym I usually would try walking around to see where the light at least looks the best, although it could look like it might be bright enough but still may not be enough light for the camera. I avoid the dark gym corners

Go early and try different vantage points to see how the background will look in your photos, and get an idea of how you'll need to set the camera. Usually for sports fast shutter speeds and midrange apertures are used but since you're close to the action here you could maybe go somewhat larger and may not need as fast a shutter speed as for other sports.

Maybe take some shots and change one setting like aperture each time, then go thru your pictures later and see what worked best - what's the largest aperture you used that gave you a good photo? what shutter speed gave you photos without motion blur? Might take some time to figure out what the optimal settings are for you in this venue. I've found that what camera settings work in one arena may not work in another.

Yetij · Mar 13, 2016

I usually avoid the windows, I don't know why I didn't think of them at that time... Probably because it was so cloudy outside that they were pretty dark. But yeah, reading the light from them didn't help that's for sure. I will think of that the next time.

Trying the different settings is definitely the key - this is my third time shooting at the gym and that aperture, shutter speed and ISO seem to work. I will look for better light and background.

Thanks for all the help

.

The_Traveler · Mar 14, 2016

You have one terrific advantage - you know exactly how big your depthe of field must be.

Use http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html to calculate the dof you actually need and set the aperture to that.
Set the shutter speed to the speed you need and let the iso float.

Yetij · Mar 14, 2016

Yes, that is true. This is a great tool, thanks

.

Braineack · Mar 14, 2016

why did you shoot at f/6.3?

shoot wider, which will drop the ISO for better IQ and increase the background separation.

And use your light meter.

Yetij · Mar 14, 2016

I tried something like f/5.6 but the other fencer wasn't sharp as the result... I really need to have both of them very sharp, hands, feet and the epees. Maybe I'm not setting the focus correctly, but only 6.3 or even 7.1 seem to work ok.

goooner · Mar 14, 2016

I think the best way to get both sharp is to move to the side and have them both on the same focal plane. I know you will lose the sense of depth in your picture, but it might allow you to shoot at 5.6 or 4.5 instead of 7.1. Then move back to increase your dof even more.

Braineack · Mar 14, 2016

shoot from the side so they are both on the same dof window.

Designer · Mar 14, 2016

goooner said:
I think the best way to get both sharp is to move to the side and have them both on the same focal plane.

He will also have to frame much wider as well. Like a panoramic photo.

kroyer · Mar 14, 2016

Yetij said:
Hi,

I have film background, but I'm kind of a newbie in photography in general.

Could you give me some advice how to take decent photos of, for example, fencing?

This is an indoor sport, the lighting is rather mediocre (good only at world class competitions), flash is not an option. Mainly I shoot from the side and a bit behind one fencer

I used Canon 5D Mark II with 24-70 2.8 canon lens.

It is pretty obvious how to set up ISO and shutter speed. The main problem is the aperture. 2.8 seems to have incredibly shallow depth of field - even one fencer wasn't fully sharp from one hand to the other. I ended up using 7.1. However, 7.1 and low shutter speed like 1/400 seem to produce quite underexposed pictures. I set ISO to 6400.

Basically, I need both fencers really sharp. Do I have good approach to aperture?

I attach one photo that looks quite good to me.

If you live in an area of the world where an outdoor setting is possible.
I'd use the lighting technique Richard Avedon used whilst exploring the West
And use a black fabric for background, preferably the thick wooly ones used in theaters and in stagework.
Make sure you have some distance to the background, preferably more than 2meters.
Set it up as a T, meaning the two fighters holds each end of the top and you the bottom. Does that make sense to anybody but me?
If you are not in a warm climate area, I'd find some place with a massive garage door and make a massive window using wast amounts of wicked tape and transparent tarp.
Do it in black and white and use on or two speed lights as kickers.