Had it dialed in...then what happened?

[TallDude]

I'm shooting indoor club level basketball. I was getting good results, now not so good. Canon T2i with a Sigma 17-50mm f2.8 using the AV setting with ISO 1600 to 3200. I'm shooting continuous, AI-servo. The lighting was similar a both shooting events, but different gyms. I'm wandering if it's my AF settings, or just worse lighting?

 

[Overread]

Whilst your eyes might think the light is similar remember that our vision system is adaptive plus you won't remember the light levels perfectly anyway so drawing a comparison can be hard. It doesn't needa huge change in lighting to require more in the camera to change to compensate.

That's why its key to always check the meter and your settings. It might be that the light levels were lower so even with hte same ISO your shutter speed might not have been fast enough. Check the shutter speed and see if there's a difference.

I have had it where I've been at maxium ISO, widest aperture and the minimum shutter speed for sharp shots (1/620sec for shooting showjumping) and started actually underexposing photos because the light levels got so low. Yep sometimes you do end up between a rock and a hardplace.

 

[DB_Cro]

Your 2nd shot is at a slower shutter speed and 1 stop higher ISO, it was obviously darker at that place.
Time for a 7D markII I'm affraid.

 

[TallDude]

The first shot was at a new private college gym. Probably LED lighting. I was shooting 2.8 fixed (AV mode) so at ISO 3200 it gave me 1/500. .....good.
The second was in an older high school gym. Probably Metal Halide lighting, which is relatively poor lighting. I was shooting ISO 6400 which gave me 1/500 th.
Some of the larger gyms I shoot in are converted warehouses with random skylights, florescent lighting, and sometimes open loading dock doors. I always try to keep the doors out of my FOV, and shoot near a skylight when possible. I might need to throw in the towel when the lighting is questionable, and just watch the game
The ISO 6400 has a lot of noise on my T2i. Aside from purchasing a superior camera body like the 7D mark II, are there any tricks to push the limit of my current gear?
Possibly shooting underdeveloped shots in RAW with a different manual setting?

 

[spiralout462]

I find that underexposing and compensating in post produces more noise on a similar body as yours. Ymmv.

In my opinion it's best to get the exposure as close as possible in camera. Unless you are willing to put lots of time in removing noise.

 

[Overread]

Few thoughts;

1) 1/500sec is an odd speed. Sometimes it give sharp results, but it can easily give soft ones. Whilst basketball is different to horses I would say that its a risky slowest shutter speed in terms of getting motion blur.

2) Has your camera got a "high ISO mode" if so unlock it. It will give you another stop of ISO - yes it WILL be noisy, but its there so that you can avoid the problem that Spiral points out just above.

3) If you're not too limited on focal length you might consider a fullframe camera body. Whilst something like a 5DMIII is expensive its ISO performance will beat that of a crop sensor camera. Further the 5DMIII at least has a very good AF system (equal to that of the 7D line). If that's out of your reach a 7DMII would certainly give you a step up.


Indoor sports is very gear demanding and one area where you can reach the limits and have to make do. Sometimes you can arrange to have flash units on site which can make a huge difference; but it very much depends on your position and the venue.

 

[DB_Cro]

I find that underexposing and compensating in post produces more noise on a similar body as yours. Ymmv.

In my opinion it's best to get the exposure as close as possible in camera. Unless you are willing to put lots of time in removing noise.

I own the T2i too and agree with this, DEFINITELY go for a proper exposure in camera, since pushing 1600 by one stop in post (to 3200) will look worse then shooting at 3200 in the first place. I've tested this out multiple times.

Newer Nikon gear (Sony sensors) don't seem to care about this though.

 

[TallDude]

The T2i does have a ' high ISO mode'. I'll try using that. Everyone wants a new body, but at what cost?

 

[DB_Cro]

The T2i does have a ' high ISO mode'. I'll try using that. Everyone wants a new body, but at what cost?

T2i starts falling apart at anything above ISO800.
You will not like what you see at 12.800.

People avoid 12.800 even on the 5d markIII for a good reason.

 

[spiralout462]

The T2i does have a ' high ISO mode'. I'll try using that. Everyone wants a new body, but at what cost?

' bout $1500.

 

[Overread]

The T2i does have a ' high ISO mode'. I'll try using that. Everyone wants a new body, but at what cost?

T2i starts falling apart at anything above ISO800.
You will not like what you see at 12.800.
People avoid 12.800 even on the 5d markIII for a good reason.

Thing is with indoor sports if you don't use that high ISO you might as well either:
1) Start to learn how to use blur creatively
2) Only take the standing/still shots.
2) Put the camera away and just watch the game till the end and take a few trophy shots.

Because otherwise you won't get the shot. So you have to suffer the high ISO noise. That actually requires investing time into learning how to work with high ISO noise. Most of us learn how to work with general noise, we learn to polish up what is generally pretty minor noise that easily goes away in resizing and printing - so we don't really learn all the ins and outs of high level tools for dealing with really powerful noise.

 

[TallDude]

For now I'll pay closer attention to what gyms have the best light and bring my camera when we have games at those locations. After reviewing past successful shoots the well lit gyms are obvious. It's the older high school gyms that are just beyond the limits of my abilities and my cameras. I'm still very interested in learning more about the post noise reduction editing.
Thankyou for all the help..

 

[DB_Cro]

Keep posting pics..

 

[Didereaux]

Your 2nd shot is at a slower shutter speed and 1 stop higher ISO, it was obviously darker at that place.
Time for a 7D markII I'm affraid.

Because it is one stop lower light your recommended fix is to spend TWO THOUSAND dollars! Must be nice to be rich! lol

 

[astroNikon]

Could always try a 85/1.8
on a crop you'll get some good focal length
and the extra speed of f/1.8 would help, but the DOF might be too shallow but might be better than the existing results.