Had it dialed in...then what happened?

[DB_Cro]

Your 2nd shot is at a slower shutter speed and 1 stop higher ISO, it was obviously darker at that place.
Time for a 7D markII I'm affraid.

Because it is one stop lower light your recommended fix is to spend TWO THOUSAND dollars! Must be nice to be rich! lol

I own the T2i and earn $250/month doing what I do in a 3rd world country, you're probably rich compared to me.
It's not one stop, T2i starts falling apart in the 800-1600 range, and people are suggesting 12.800.
That's just not possible.

A LOT of people upgrade the body WAAY too soon, some do it just because they can, not because they need to.
This guy REALLY needs to do it.

 

[TallDude]

I wanted to do a comparison of ISO's in the same setting to get a feel of the level of noise for the higher of ISO's. This was at my son's basketball practice last night in a poorly lit high school practice gym. I wasn't attempting to get a close-up or tight focus, just ISO. The flat darker solid colored walls really show the noise. The first is ISO 3200, then 6400, and finally 12,800.

 

[astroNikon]

The space looks inconsistently lit too.
If they are under the basket to the left it seems a bit dimmer than towards center court.
So your ISO is going to vary depending upon where the subject is.

 

[TallDude]

Here is what I'm usually dealing with in these club basketball warehouses. There are 12 to 30 courts in these warehouses. A mix of skylights, loading dock doors that are half rolled open for air, and fluorescent light. A sunny day isn't always your friend. I try to keep my back to the brightest source ( the loading dock doors). The skylight and fluorescent lighting doesn't correspond with the court layout either. I can usually freely move about the perimeter of the court. Trying to find the best angle to catch the action and good lighting is a challenge. I noticed I was shooting with an ISO of 1600 during this shoot. I'm feeling the shots I've been taking with a 3200 ISO is yielding a sharper result without too much noise. Any suggestion on approaching these conditions? Should I use a lens hood?

 

[DB_Cro]

You should always use a lens hood, regardless of what you're shooting.
If the proper exposure for the shot requires using ISO3200 and you shoot at 1600 and bump up
the exposure in postprocessing you'll end up with a noisier image then shooting 3200 in the first place.

I'd definately go with 3200 even on the T2i just to be on the safe side with the motion blur of the players,
which are, in the image above, all blurry to some degree. This isn't a bad thing since it shows motion/action
but EVERYONE blurry is something I'd avoid. It's a 1/250s shot.. so yeah, 1/500 at ISO3200 would be what
I'd do here.

I wonder if anyone tried using a high-speed sync flash for stuff like this.
I got a HSS flash few months ago but never had a chance to use it in HSS mode yet.

 

[TallDude]

The gym rules say 'absolutely no flash photography'. I found that photo just to show the lighting, not so much composition. Here is a more focused / framed photo from that shoot. These where from 2 years ago when I first bought the Sigma f2.8 17mm to 50mm. I had realized that the box f4 35mm to 80mm wasn't going to cut it.

 

[DB_Cro]

Yep, just as you're about to figure out you need a better body for a noticeable improvement.
The 17-50 2.8 is rather soft at 2.8, and I see you shoot at 2.8 a lot. 3.2 would make it a lot sharper, if you care about that.

1/350s suggests Aperture Priority mode? I'd want to shoot manual in that situation to make sure I got control over
all of the parameters. You might be able to get away with a Canon 70D btw, which I believe wasn't mentioned. It's not
as good as 7D markII in high ISO but it does share the same sensor and is still better then the T2i. It's considerably
cheaper and the improvements are all in the direction that a sports photographer would appreciate, i.e. more cross-type
focusing points, bigger buffer, more frames per second and a huge improvement in focus tracking for moving subjects.

The image above is still a too slow of a shutter speed for me :-/

EDIT: Bummer about the flash but I'm not sure how much and if it would help at all.

 

[TallDude]

Since then I've gain a little more knowledge about my set-up. Here is a more current shot in better lighting.

 

[DB_Cro]

That looks better, yep, but like most others, still too slow shutter for me.
I just found this (looking for 7D markII basketball shots) - 20 Tips for Photographing Youth Basketball
I agree with absolutely everything.
EDIT: Forgot about the JPEG thing - that's a bad idea, especially on a T2i.

I never shot basketball, but looking at your 1/250-1/350 pics got me thinking that 1/500 would be a minimum, and that's exactly what this
article suggests, but he'd let it slide at 1/400. Heh.. and he also mentions that that shutter speed keeps him around ISO3200 often with a F/2 lens!


So, yeah, you're screwed unless you use primes or a better body.
I guess 50mm F/1.8 is a cheap way to try this..

 

[TallDude]

Yep, just as you're about to figure out you need a better body for a noticeable improvement.
The 17-50 2.8 is rather soft at 2.8, and I see you shoot at 2.8 a lot. 3.2 would make it a lot sharper, if you care about that.

1/350s suggests Aperture Priority mode? I'd want to shoot manual in that situation to make sure I got control over
all of the parameters. You might be able to get away with a Canon 70D btw, which I believe wasn't mentioned. It's not
as good as 7D markII in high ISO but it does share the same sensor and is still better then the T2i. It's considerably
cheaper and the improvements are all in the direction that a sports photographer would appreciate, i.e. more cross-type
focusing points, bigger buffer, more frames per second and a huge improvement in focus tracking for moving subjects.

The image above is still a too slow of a shutter speed for me :-/

EDIT: Bummer about the flash but I'm not sure how much and if it would help at all.

I have been shooting in AV mode. I feel confident enough to toss the crutches and shoot in manual mode. I'l try 3.2 at 1600 and 3200 if I have decent light. I'll start using the hood as well. I forgot to mention I've been using an HMC UV filter too. Any issues with that?

 

[DB_Cro]

Yeah, it's cutting down on light, reducing sharpness etc. I'd ditch it.

 

[TallDude]

I'm wandering if the DOF is to narrow on a 1.8 for the type of action I'm shooting? Or if that is even a factor? I have a fix 1.4 65mm, no AF...... A new Canon 1.8 is only around $125. Might be worth it? Great lens to have in the bag for sure.
Thanks again for the help

 

[DB_Cro]

If anything helps, well, sure..
I wouldn't shoot at 1.8 anyways, maybe 2.2 or something, just to get a bit more light in then your 2.8 lens.
I'd do anything to avoid ISO6400 on a T2i, 3200 is fine if the image isn't underexposed (shadows get noisy).

 

[TallDude]

I just caught this comment. You're saying I should shoot RAW only? I know it will help in post, but is it that much better?

BTW, My niece just got married in Croatia last summer. Her husband Jura is from there.

 

[DB_Cro]

Yeah, I thought anything above 800 was unusable while I was shooting jpeg some 5 years ago, then figured out that a properly exposed
3200 shot got me a lot of "How the hell did you do that?" questions. I always shoot RAW now though. Too bad the T2i has a small buffer
and only takes about 3 raws before it starts backing up.