HELP! Bad Photo Shoot/Gig: How to deal with the aftermath

[TATTRAT]

I think any professional in any field is lowering their own worth when they undertake such gratis work.

I'd like to explain the above, because I feel that doing free work shows that you are desperate for work and experience and that you're not really get many paid jobs. It's a bad, bad message to send out in public, even if it is true -- whatever the profession in question. This is why many self-employed professionals start out their career as apprentices under a more experienced and established pro or a firm. Once you're well established in business, it doesn't hurt to undertake an occasional free job.

The difficulties of starting out in your chosen profession alone are numerous and the path is tough...

Now even if you do it as a favour to a friend/relative, the recipient of that favour might not see it in the same light if they know you're not yet fully established in your line - they will subconsciously or consciously feel THEY're doing you a favour by giving you the experience and in that regard friends and relatives are the worst.

And also, just because it was done for no payment, there is no guarantee that the recipient will be satisfied - as was the case here. You never know the mindset of people who want to save money in the short term because they don't usually think of the consequences of their decision.

All in all, I see it as a lose-lose situation. You've not had the satisfaction of doing a professional job with payment and they're not happy with the pictures.

These are some lessons I've learned in my profession, as a lawyer.

She was pretty upfront with her concerns of the shoot, was not paid, and did it as a favor. It sounds like the friend nudged her into doing the gig and now, even though all the cards were laid on the table, the friend is being pissy when in fact she should be grateful. If the friend was really that concerned, she would have listened to the OP and perhaps explored other options.

I think a pro bono gig is a given here and there. I think that is how most everyone starts out, unless I am WAY off base, and I may be. . .with the example photos provided, I am with Runnah, sounds like the friend is being overly bitchy and it's pretty clear that her expectations were never made clear, though the attempts were made by the OP.

I think the example shots were pretty good, considering the write up/build up, I was expecting horrible, low light, grainy, blurry, noisy pics. None of the photos exhibit those qualities.

OP, glad you are taking control of the situation. You laid your cards on the table and seem to have been honest and upfront about your concerns/limitations. If your friend can't respect that, then no more favors for her when it comes to photographs.

 

[nonamexx]

I think any professional in any field is lowering their own worth when they undertake such gratis work.

I'd like to explain the above, because I feel that doing free work shows that you are desperate for work and experience and that you're not really get many paid jobs. It's a bad, bad message to send out in public, even if it is true -- whatever the profession in question. This is why many self-employed professionals start out their career as apprentices under a more experienced and established pro or a firm. Once you're well established in business, it doesn't hurt to undertake an occasional free job.

The difficulties of starting out in your chosen profession alone are numerous and the path is tough...

Now even if you do it as a favour to a friend/relative, the recipient of that favour might not see it in the same light if they know you're not yet fully established in your line - they will subconsciously or consciously feel THEY're doing you a favour by giving you the experience and in that regard friends and relatives are the worst.

And also, just because it was done for no payment, there is no guarantee that the recipient will be satisfied - as was the case here. You never know the mindset of people who want to save money in the short term because they don't usually think of the consequences of their decision.

All in all, I see it as a lose-lose situation. You've not had the satisfaction of doing a professional job with payment and they're not happy with the pictures.

These are some lessons I've learned in my profession, as a lawyer.

She was pretty upfront with her concerns of the shoot, was not paid, and did it as a favor. It sounds like the friend nudged her into doing the gig and now, even though all the cards were laid on the table, the friend is being pissy when in fact she should be grateful. If the friend was really that concerned, she would have listened to the OP and perhaps explored other options.

I think a pro bono gig is a given here and there. I think that is how most everyone starts out, unless I am WAY off base, and I may be. . .with the example photos provided, I am with Runnah, sounds like the friend is being overly bitchy and it's pretty clear that her expectations were never made clear, though the attempts were made by the OP.

I think the example shots were pretty good, considering the write up/build up, I was expecting horrible, low light, grainy, blurry, noisy pics. None of the photos exhibit those qualities.

OP, glad you are taking control of the situation. You laid your cards on the table and seem to have been honest and upfront about your concerns/limitations. If your friend can't respect that, then no more favors for her when it comes to photographs.

My experience has been that even if people know the limitations, their expectations are always higher than what you think it is.

The fact is, if you're a self-employed professional doing a favour to anybody and the favour involves your chosen profession, there is a likelihood that people will always think they're doing you a favour by giving you the work experience and illogically enough they will expect you to repay them with your best effort and results. Unless you're really well established in that line, granting favours are a bad idea. People especially family and friends tend to be ungrateful, even if you succeed...

If the favour doesn't involve your profession, then you have nothing to worry about!

I agree, the photos here are very good! Don't know what the client was complaining about.

The best thing about this is to take it as a learning experience and leave behind everything else. If you have a thick enough skin to withstand this, then you will probably find it a valuable part of your learning. However, many people are quite sensitive and that's why such scenarios are better avoided.

 

[TATTRAT]

I'd like to explain the above, because I feel that doing free work shows that you are desperate for work and experience and that you're not really get many paid jobs. It's a bad, bad message to send out in public, even if it is true -- whatever the profession in question. This is why many self-employed professionals start out their career as apprentices under a more experienced and established pro or a firm. Once you're well established in business, it doesn't hurt to undertake an occasional free job.

The difficulties of starting out in your chosen profession alone are numerous and the path is tough...

Now even if you do it as a favour to a friend/relative, the recipient of that favour might not see it in the same light if they know you're not yet fully established in your line - they will subconsciously or consciously feel THEY're doing you a favour by giving you the experience and in that regard friends and relatives are the worst.

And also, just because it was done for no payment, there is no guarantee that the recipient will be satisfied - as was the case here. You never know the mindset of people who want to save money in the short term because they don't usually think of the consequences of their decision.

All in all, I see it as a lose-lose situation. You've not had the satisfaction of doing a professional job with payment and they're not happy with the pictures.

These are some lessons I've learned in my profession, as a lawyer.

She was pretty upfront with her concerns of the shoot, was not paid, and did it as a favor. It sounds like the friend nudged her into doing the gig and now, even though all the cards were laid on the table, the friend is being pissy when in fact she should be grateful. If the friend was really that concerned, she would have listened to the OP and perhaps explored other options.

I think a pro bono gig is a given here and there. I think that is how most everyone starts out, unless I am WAY off base, and I may be. . .with the example photos provided, I am with Runnah, sounds like the friend is being overly bitchy and it's pretty clear that her expectations were never made clear, though the attempts were made by the OP.

I think the example shots were pretty good, considering the write up/build up, I was expecting horrible, low light, grainy, blurry, noisy pics. None of the photos exhibit those qualities.

OP, glad you are taking control of the situation. You laid your cards on the table and seem to have been honest and upfront about your concerns/limitations. If your friend can't respect that, then no more favors for her when it comes to photographs.

My experience has been that even if people know the limitations, their expectations are always higher than what you think it is.

The fact is, if you're a self-employed professional doing a favour to anybody and the favour involves your chosen profession, there is a likelihood that people will always think they're doing you a favour by giving you the work experience and illogically enough they will expect you to repay them with your best effort and results. Unless you're really well established in that line, granting favours are a bad idea. People tend to be ungrateful, even if you succeed...

If the favour doesn't involve your profession, then you have nothing to worry about!

I agree, the photos here are very good! Don't know what the client was complaining about.

The best thing about this is to take it as a learning experience and leave behind everything else. If you have a thick enough skin to withstand this, then you will probably find it part of your learning. However, many people are quite sensitive.

Yeah, I can agree with all that. It's a pretty ****ty situation that shouldn't be, it just seems the friend is really being the real "problem", lol.

 

[nonamexx]

The other thing to consider about this kind of scenario is that you expect friends and family to be your first line of "referrers" to build up a future clientele. Clients don't appear out of thin air in the initial stages! If they are not satisfied, there is a chance that you might not get clients from that source.

So if you want to do such work, don't undertake this kind of work as a favour. Undertake it as a paid job (even if for a token amount). Your mindset will be different, you will act like they're real clients with higher expectations and prepare accordingly, and they will probably treat you as you expect to be treated by a third party client.

All this is easier said than done. That's why it's ten times harder.

 

[Ballistics]

The other thing to consider about this kind of scenario is that you expect friends and family to be your first line of "referrers" to build up a future clientele. Clients don't appear out of thin air in the initial stages! If they are not satisfied, there is a chance that you might not get clients from that source.

So if you want to do such work, don't undertake this kind of work as a favour. Undertake it as a paid job (even if for a token amount). Your mindset will be different, you will act like they're real clients with higher expectations and prepare accordingly, and they will probably treat you as you expect to be treated by a third party client.

All this is easier said than done. That's why it's ten times harder.

Friends and family should refer you regardless. Otherwise you have some sh*tty friends and family. If you shoot an event for completely free, there's really nothing for them to
not be satisfied about to not refer you.

I highly doubt that your shooting style will change if it's a paid or unpaid gig(as will your mindset). If you are shooting with a purpose, your shooting with a purpose. Shouldn't matter about the money. I shot a birthday party for free, had a good time, enjoyed myself, and had around 2 dozen pictures that the mother loved. She loved them to the point where she insisted on paying me, but I declined.

 

[Steve5D]

None of my photoshoots are paid, at least by money. I always tell them that we're both doing each other a favor because they get their prints and I get some practice.

"Practice" isn't a tangible asset that you can put in your pocket, or in your checking account. You're not being "paid"...

This is the first time that I've been pressed into a corner.

You're not painted into a corner at all. If she doesn't like what you've given her, and bad-mouths you because of it (which is possible), then she wasn't a friend to begin with...

So instead of handing over the hard drive, I should ask her to sit down with me this weekend and we both can go through the hard drive together?

You seem to have this unwavering need to show her all of your unedited images. You need to get over that, and you need to get over it fast. There is absolutely no compelling reason to show her the bad ones. None. Not a single reason. When I have clients who ask for "everything", I tell them "No problem. That'll be an additional $2,500.00". If someone is willing to pay that, I'll give them everything.

Everything has a price, and that's the price for my unedited images.

Seriously, under no circumstances should you should her everything. Show her the best of what you have, and leave it at that. If she gets pissy, so be it; she wasn't a friend, anyway. If she's gracious and accepting, then she is.

My mantra is a simple one: "Only I get to see the bad ones".

It's served me well...

 

[Derrel]

View attachment 41311

You know, I think your friend has some serious issues. I would not spend another minute trying to please this woman. I would say just go through the shots and dump any that are absolutely HORRIBLE, and then burn her a couple discs with ALL the images, and put them in a nice jewel case and say, "Here. Here are your photos."\\


The idea of never giving people unedited pics makes sense--for PAYING, genuine customers. This woman sounds like a royal pain in the posterior, and the quicker you just bail out of this mess, the better. Time to cut and run. Run far, run fast.

 

[imagemaker46]

My opinion, there is nothing wrong with the photos you posted, however if this is all you came up with out of 2000 then I can see a concern. If you're friend doesn't appreciate the time you put in, she's not a friend, she's a leech. Don't show her any photos that you don't like, if they aren't sharp, they should have all been deleted in the first cut, the second cut would get rid of all the ones that just don't look good for all the other reasons, even if you end up with a 100 good ones. Only the best survive.

I would start learning how to shoot indoors, with a flash, especially if you end up with another situation like this one. You clearly weren't ready to do this shoot.

 

[EIngerson]

None of my photoshoots are paid, at least by money. I always tell them that we're both doing each other a favor because they get their prints and I get some practice.

"Practice" isn't a tangible asset that you can put in your pocket, or in your checking account. You're not being "paid"...

This is the first time that I've been pressed into a corner.

You're not painted into a corner at all. If she doesn't like what you've given her, and bad-mouths you because of it (which is possible), then she wasn't a friend to begin with...

So instead of handing over the hard drive, I should ask her to sit down with me this weekend and we both can go through the hard drive together?

You seem to have this unwavering need to show her all of your unedited images. You need to get over that, and you need to get over it fast. There is absolutely no compelling reason to show her the bad ones. None. Not a single reason. When I have clients who ask for "everything", I tell them "No problem. That'll be an additional $2,500.00". If someone is willing to pay that, I'll give them everything.

Everything has a price, and that's the price for my unedited images.

Seriously, under no circumstances should you should her everything. Show her the best of what you have, and leave it at that. If she gets pissy, so be it; she wasn't a friend, anyway. If she's gracious and accepting, then she is.

My mantra is a simple one: "Only I get to see the bad ones".

It's served me well...

Couldn't say it better if I tried. I'd have a sit-down with my "friend" and set things straight. I hope it works out for you. Some great advice in here.

 

[gsgary]

Amolitor and Manaheim,

I'm actually doing that right now since she wants the hard drive tomorrow morning. Thanks for all the advice everyone! I really appreciate it!!

~Shelle

Don't give her it

 

[gsgary]

DO NOT let her see ANY unedited images! This is a golden rule in photography. That is like me walking around downtown Chicago naked. Professionals do not do that, and she is walking all over you. Stick up for yourself, and take control of this situation. Let HER know what you are going to do from here on out, not the other way around. Friend or not, if you do not take the lead here this will happen again. I can assure you.

Nothing wrong with walking round naked

 

[nonamexx]

The other thing to consider about this kind of scenario is that you expect friends and family to be your first line of "referrers" to build up a future clientele. Clients don't appear out of thin air in the initial stages! If they are not satisfied, there is a chance that you might not get clients from that source.

So if you want to do such work, don't undertake this kind of work as a favour. Undertake it as a paid job (even if for a token amount). Your mindset will be different, you will act like they're real clients with higher expectations and prepare accordingly, and they will probably treat you as you expect to be treated by a third party client.

All this is easier said than done. That's why it's ten times harder.

Friends and family should refer you regardless. Otherwise you have some sh*tty friends and family. If you shoot an event for completely free, there's really nothing for them to
not be satisfied about to not refer you.

I highly doubt that your shooting style will change if it's a paid or unpaid gig(as will your mindset). If you are shooting with a purpose, your shooting with a purpose. Shouldn't matter about the money. I shot a birthday party for free, had a good time, enjoyed myself, and had around 2 dozen pictures that the mother loved. She loved them to the point where she insisted on paying me, but I declined.

The biggest mistake people make is thinking that because you're giving something for free, others will take a more forgiving attitude - irrespective of quality. As seen here, that is how it should be in theory, but rarely in reality except in the case with close family and very close friends (as in really long-time). only those close to you will be understanding and forgiving. Even if you did a great job like in this instance, if they're not satisfied they will always complain that they might as well have hired somebody more "professional". Now that can hurt if you're in the same line.

As seen here, it isn't always the case with friends and relatives who don't know you on a daily basis. The word "friends and relatives" cover a wide circle. I've found out the hard way that friends and relatives who're supposed to refer you are the ones who're most careful about their "image" being on the line for referring you. Regardless, outside of immediate family circle, it's always best to maintain the professional attitude. Give them a concession but don't do it free. Maintain the professional attitude throughout. You will earn respect for that and people will perceive your work slightly differently. Otherwise you'll also leave room for people to think"Of course he/she did it for free, so that's why I didn't get the quality."

So what I said applies to not-so-close friends and relatives. If you're a upcoming professional, you should personally maintain the professionalism whether paid or not, but others don't see it that way. Getting payment is also a case of marketing to the outside world that your time and skills are valuable and worthy. And to charge for your services is what keeps your worth in others' eyes however subconsciously.

And yes, undertaking work only if you're comfortable with the job is part of the professional attitude.

The bottom line: if you're really comfortable dealing with the friend and are confident that they know you enough and have tailored their expectation accordingly, then you can do it for free as a favour. it should come from the heart, certainly not as an obligation and definitely not simply as a way to practice and improve skills.

Caveat 1: None of this applies if you're doing it just for fun and not on a professional level. In that case, you have nothing to worry about.
Caveat 2: If you're already well established in the line and you have a solid reputation which can stand up regardless, you can take up such assignments for free for obliging friends.

My final advise would be to avoid doing any professional work for friends and relatives in any case to avoid these issues, but if you absolutely must, the above points may help.

 

[bratkinson]

As has been stated by many respondents in this thread...NEVER give up unedited shots! But since you are apparently already past the point off no return on handing them over, give her the RAW versions. Then explain that in RAW pictures, there is no 'adjustments' made by the internal camera software. I'm sure she would be stunned by the difference between RAW and JPG pictures.

A few other things come to mind for me. First and foremost is...2000 pictures???? Are you kidding? I just completed photographing a 9 'meeting' Missions Conference at church (meetings, meals, fun stuff, too) spread out over a 8 days and took about 1,300 pictures. My very first step was to cut that down to 400-ish by eliminating out of focus, bad exposure, subject(s) eyes closed, unflattering pictures, etc. I made a 2nd 'cull' and eliminated the too-similar shots, reduce the number of shots per subject(s), etc. THEN I started my editing. In the end, I knocked off another 100 or so, and produced a screen presentation of 125 pictures, with DVDs of all 300 or so that were edited keepers.

The thought of editing 2000 pictures is mind boggleing. Shooting that many in, what, 2-3 hours? is WAAAYYYY overboard, in my estimation. If she -really- wants the whole shooting match, let her head spin for a while trying to get what she wants.

Lastly, your initial post noted that the pictures were yellowish. I'm going out on a limb and say you were probably using Auto White Balance, and the incandescent lights really screwed things up. I shot digital at church for several YEARS before I even had a CLUE about white balance. And that was complements of a WB disaster at my step daughters wedding a year ago. In the days before I understood white balance, I, too, wrestled for HOURS ON END trying to get the colors right...mostly too much yellows caused by AWB and incandescent lights. Under florescent lights, the colors are even more screwed up! Trying to adjust individual color sliders was killing me. I'd spend 10-15 minutes per picture trying to get the right colors. And getting color consistency between shots...not even in the ballpark!

Then I discovered white balance...the hard way. Spent some time reading about it, etc. Figured out how to set it in the camera, grey cards, etc. So now, depending on how (and if) I set my color balance in the camera (affects JPG outputs only), the pictures usually come out pretty good. When I process the RAW files, I set the WB in Lightroom with a simple click of the grey card and then 'synchronize' all shots in those lighting conditions with 2 clicks. If I forgot (or just didn't get) a grey card shot, I simply set the WB in Lightroom clicking on a reasonably white element in the picture such as a table cloth, a white shirt, a napkin, etc. Then make a little tweak of the WB sliders to get it 'right'.

So, even if your pictures were strictly JPGs, I think you should be able to adjust the WB somewhat in post processing. Not as much depth of color to 'play with' in JPGs as in RAW, but still enough to improve the results. And, depending on the post processing software you are using, it should provide some means of copying the WB settings from one picture to the next. That might be easy or hard to do, depending on the software.

 

[jowensphoto]

OP, come back and tell us what happened!

 

[Steve5D]

But since you are apparently already past the point off no return on handing them over, give her the RAW versions.

The only time she'll move "past the point of no return" is when she actually hands over the images. Until that point, and only until that point, can she elect to not do so.

OP, you need to simply tell your friend that you're not going to allow her to see the images which are "bad". Period. If that upsets her, well, that's just too bad. It serves absolutely no purpose.

Ask yourself two questions

1 - Why do you feel you need to show her photos that you, yourself, decided were not good enough to give her?
2 - If she's unhappy with the photos you decided were good enough to show her, how happy do you think she's going to be with the photos you didn't want to show her?

You've been offered a lot of sound advice in this thread, and it would do you well to heed it...