How do I nicely say "You shouldn't be charging for photos yet?" Please help!

[CandySvoboda]

It's not that we don't get what you are saying--we just have reached the point of no longer caring.

Well, I am still a new user on this forum, and if I had to read the same post over and over, I'd feel the same way!

Why on earth would you be pissed of? What a waste of time and energy.

You say that "people should have respect for this field".

Why?

Every field under the sun has good practitioners and poor practitioners, and it's silly to think that photography should be any different.

I feel that people should show respect for the work they do, or aspire to do, no matter what the field, including photography. What would you think if a medical student showed complete disregard for learning? Not trying to pick a fight or be rude to you, just pointing something out.

You should invite her to lunch and then when you get there tell the waiter to hold yo rings while you backhand her so hard her weave flies off.

Know what I sayin' gurlfran?

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: 500 points for the laughs!

Anywho, I think I'm just going to leave it alone and let her do her thing. However, if she starts complaining to me that she's not making any money, I might have to take some advice and backhand her so her weave flies off

 

[Tiller]

Just tell her to buy a 70-200 f2.8 II bc then she really will be a pro!! Cuz ya know...it's white and stuff.

 

[sm4him]

To the OP: I think you'll find that there are a lot of people on this forum that would tend to agree with you -- particularly the "old school" folks who have made a living doing this for years. They get VERY irritated when NooB's buy a DSLR at Best Buy, shoot for a week or 2, get accolades from friends and family on their Facebook posts and think "this is easy! I'm going to shoot for profit!"

As Medic indicated above, there is at least 1 of these posts weekly on the forum. I think those of us who are on here regularly are so sick and tired of responding to these types of threads that we take the "Eff It!" attitude and say just stay out of her business.

It's not that we don't get what you are saying--we just have reached the point of no longer caring.

I don't know, I don't think it's even that we've reached the point of not caring. For me, at least, it's more than I've reached the point in my life where I am getting better and better at that whole "grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference" thing.

OP: This is not something you can change. If you are determined to try, I hope that you are not TOO attached to this friendship, but it is almost certain to end badly.

For those of us who've considered "hanging out the shingle" but don't do it, it can be irritating as all-get-out to see someone who doesn't even understand the basics of their camera hop onto the Pro bus. But--it's really NOT something WE can change. What WE can do is concentrate on our own skills.

If her skills are that bad, and yet people hire her...well, unless she is misrepresenting herself by posting photos that aren't hers, they should be getting exactly what they signed on for. It might be irritating, but such is life. The day I started my FB photography page (not a business, just a "showcase" for my photos really, a way for people to "like" my photography without me having to actually friend them personally), a "friend" (the mother of a good friend of my son, actually), "liked" my page and within an hour, had her OWN page up of absolutely terrible pictures. Within two days, she had more "likes" on hers than I had on mine. It was highly irritating...and completely out of my control. I just ignored it and went right on concentrating on MY page. I haven't seen her post anything in weeks now.

The tax thing, well, that's a little different, BUT it's still largely out of your control. What *I* would do, if I were you is simply start a conversation with her, something along this line:

So, you're starting a photography business. Wow, that takes courage! I hope it goes well. Let me ask you a question: I'd love to start a business myself someday, when I'm ready, but one thing that holds me back is all the legal stuff--so maybe you could help me. What did you have to do to get the business license, and how did you know what to do about the taxes and IRS stuff? Did you hire someone to help you figure it all out?

In other words--ask her "advice" as if assuming she must KNOW these things, because after all, she's "done" it. (yes, it's called Passive Aggressive behavior. I'm good at it, and it may get knocked a lot, but it WORKS. )

If she poo-poos it, and says something like "Oh, I don't think that's really a problem. I'm just doing this on the side and don't plan to make all that much" or whatever, THEN you can express the "But aren't you a little concerned about what could happen if the IRS finds out? I've heard horror stories about how cities, states and the IRS are finding people in "under the table" businesses through their FB pages or other online presences and then coming after them. I think it would just make me too nervous to go into business without having all that set up.

Now, you've expressed your concern, and maybe planted a seed that perhaps she SHOULD look into making things legal. If she still does nothing about it, then she doesn't CARE if she gets caught. So, why should you?

 

[jwbryson1]

... Why on earth would you be pissed of? What a waste of time and energy.
You say that "people should have respect for this field".

Why?

Every field under the sun has good practitioners and poor practitioners, and it's silly to think that photography should be any different.

My advice? Well, simple: You should realize that it's not your place to say anything to her. As bent out of shape over this as you obviously are, what level of experience do you possess which permits you to judge what someone else is doing? Are you a working pro? Do you have that desire if you're not?

I've come to the realization that the only person I should be worrying about is me. Period. I cannot control what others say or do, nor should I want to.

If she's better than you apparently think she is, she may well succeed despite your rants. If she's not, she will fail without them. In either case, complaining about her accomplishes nothing.

But, if you insist that you're in a position which permits you to take her to task for this, tell her straight. Don't pull any punches. Be direct and succinct. Don't worry about hurting her feelings. Tell her how it is; the good and the bad. Leave no gray area.

Or simply accept that this is her business and not yours...

Hmmm.... do you not see the irony of this statement Steve?

Don't even get me started.

 

[jwbryson1]

bestbuy kit and everyone's a pro

Semi-pro. Add a pair of PW's and they're officially "pro."

Just sayin'...:mrgreen:

 

[Steve5D]

... Why on earth would you be pissed of? What a waste of time and energy.
You say that "people should have respect for this field".

Why?

Every field under the sun has good practitioners and poor practitioners, and it's silly to think that photography should be any different.

My advice? Well, simple: You should realize that it's not your place to say anything to her. As bent out of shape over this as you obviously are, what level of experience do you possess which permits you to judge what someone else is doing? Are you a working pro? Do you have that desire if you're not?

I've come to the realization that the only person I should be worrying about is me. Period. I cannot control what others say or do, nor should I want to.

If she's better than you apparently think she is, she may well succeed despite your rants. If she's not, she will fail without them. In either case, complaining about her accomplishes nothing.

But, if you insist that you're in a position which permits you to take her to task for this, tell her straight. Don't pull any punches. Be direct and succinct. Don't worry about hurting her feelings. Tell her how it is; the good and the bad. Leave no gray area.

Or simply accept that this is her business and not yours...

Hmmm.... do you not see the irony of this statement Steve?

She asked for input, so I gave her some.

Jus' tryin' to help, Hoss...

 

[Steve5D]

I feel that people should show respect for the work they do, or aspire to do, no matter what the field, including photography. What would you think if a medical student showed complete disregard for learning? Not trying to pick a fight or be rude to you, just pointing something out.

Well, I would think he's probably gonna' make a pretty crappy doctor, and choose to continue seeing my current physician. He's not going to change the face of medical practice in America, so why bother even thinking about it? See, nothing the med student does or doesn't do is going to impact me an iota, just as nothing your friend is doing will impact me (or you, for that matter) an iota. Ranting about it serves only one purpose: ranting. Period.

Getting upset about it is just about the least productive thing I can imagine...

 

[Pallycow]

See this a ton locally. It is annoying, but ultimately....none of my concern. You can lose friends if they are sensitive, so be careful.

I have been blocked on FB by 3 locals...lol. Not for C&C publicly...but privately trying to help them...oh well. I find it hilarious.

I have learned the fine line to walk when trying to help someone. I generally want to help others...genuinely. It's an extra chromosome I have apparently. However, I have learned that like on here, tooooo many people get butthurt. Especially when they post crap on FB and get a ton of likes and well wishes on their crap. It gives them a false sense of accomplishment. To which, they will in turn pass you off as if you don't know what you're talking about.

There are 3 young people that have come into the shop to print their images...I tactfully recommend this or that, and usually start by asking them questions...to see how they might answer. Once they hear me, I leave them alone and see if on their next visit they ask questions or need help.

I mention these 3 in particular because they have no business whatsoever selling themselves as photogs...one even wants to do weddings. *cringe*

So far, all 3 have been more than receptive...one I will be giving a "one light workshop" too in 2 weeks to help her better understand lighting and how it applies in and out of studio.

There were two others I tried the same thing with.....they smile and take my advice...seemingly...yet when they come back in they have the same crap with no effort to utilize advice given. I don't offer up help to them anymore. I simply be polite and smile and wish them well as any other customer.

Long story short....see how receptive a person is to help/critique/advice etc...before trying to advise in any particular direction. Or just stay out of their business. Afterall, it really does not affect you.

;-)

 

[The_Traveler]

I have a good friend who really wants to be a good photographer but just can't seem to get it all together; I have been helping/tutoring him with post-processing. He comes over my house and looks over my shoulder while I take an image of his and analyze it, then do all the edits to the finish. Then he'll try the same process.
Last Monday we worked on two color images and and another that I converted to B&W.
I can say honestly that the difference before and after for each of the images was quite marked.
I do everything in separate layers and label them so he can use them as a 'tutorial.'
He always takes my PS files home with him.
He called me this week and said those three images won two firsts and a second in a local club contest.
I don't know how to feel about that.

 

[Pallycow]

I have a good friend who really wants to be a good photographer but just can't seem to get it all together; I have been helping/tutoring him with post-processing. He comes over my house and looks over my shoulder while I take an image of his and analyze it, then do all the edits to the finish. Then he'll try the same process.
Last Monday we worked on two color images and and another that I converted to B&W.
I can say honestly that the difference before and after for each of the images was quite marked.
I do everything in separate layers and label them so he can use them as a 'tutorial.'
He always takes my PS files home with him.
He called me this week and said those three images won two firsts and a second in a local club contest.
I don't know how to feel about that.

I'm not one to be that "moral" so to speak on many things. However, I do find that situation a bit sketchy as well. Honestly, he should not have entered them in a contest since you did the work.

Congrats to you though for doing a good job. lol

 

[The_Traveler]

Well, I don't know if he used my edited versions; I hope he didn't but I certainly wouldn't ask or check up.
I want to think the best because he is really a great guy, it is just a bit discomforting.

 

[binga63]

I have a good friend who really wants to be a good photographer but just can't seem to get it all together; I have been helping/tutoring him with post-processing. He comes over my house and looks over my shoulder while I take an image of his and analyze it, then do all the edits to the finish. Then he'll try the same process.
Last Monday we worked on two color images and and another that I converted to B&W.
I can say honestly that the difference before and after for each of the images was quite marked.
I do everything in separate layers and label them so he can use them as a 'tutorial.'
He always takes my PS files home with him.
He called me this week and said those three images won two firsts and a second in a local club contest.
I don't know how to feel about that.

Lew

He is a good friend, as you say they were his images
And you are helping him
I'd would congratulate him, and then caution him on the values of winning using your own work and that which someone has adjusted for you
Using the comparison of DAD doing your homework for you and getting an A
If it had of been a separate image from those that you worked on and he used your techniques it would be whole different reaction
my 2 cents

 

[runnah]

The good thing about best friends is that you can and they expect brutal honesty. If you feel you have to lie or subvert the truth in any way they are not as close as you thought.

 

[CandySvoboda]

I feel that people should show respect for the work they do, or aspire to do, no matter what the field, including photography. What would you think if a medical student showed complete disregard for learning? Not trying to pick a fight or be rude to you, just pointing something out.

Well, I would think he's probably gonna' make a pretty crappy doctor, and choose to continue seeing my current physician. He's not going to change the face of medical practice in America, so why bother even thinking about it? See, nothing the med student does or doesn't do is going to impact me an iota, just as nothing your friend is doing will impact me (or you, for that matter) an iota. Ranting about it serves only one purpose: ranting. Period.

Getting upset about it is just about the least productive thing I can imagine...

I definitely see your point now, I think I just took your original post differently than you intended. Thanks! I'm sure there are a million "pro" photogs out there doing the same thing as my friend, and I just shrug those people off, so why shouldn't I shrug this off too? Makes sense.

I'm very grateful for all the advice here!

 

[The_Traveler]

they were his images

and I think I will let it drop.
Now that I thought it through, I am confident that he did his own work and would not distrust his ethical sense to even mention it.