How Much Should I Charge - Slideshow

[Kaylaidan]

hi, my name is chris and i am a new semi-pro photographer. i'm currently in school for photography and trying to make some money. i was shooting for a class assignment at a nightclub the other night (stop motion and motion blur...). while working on my shooting assignment, i also took several shots of the clubs patrons ... for some reason, when you walk around a club with a pro "looking" camera, everyone wants to pose for you! ... several patrons asked me where to buy the shots (1st question of how much i should charge for them???) and later the owner asked me to give him a price on a slide show for the LCD monitors in the club (second pricing Q????)... So how much would you charge, for individual shots (media or print) or the slide show for the club? also how much would you subtract for being new without any reputation yet?

 

[2WheelPhoto]

$2.05 a shot for the facebook profile pics

 

[Josh220]

Price out how much it will cost for you to print them. Add on the amount you think is fair (5%, 10%, etc) and if they find the price acceptable, then you're set.

What are the LCD monitors used for? General displays around the club? Advertising?

P.S. if you don't know your own pricing, you are not semi-pro. You're a student trying to make some money; nothing more at this point.

 

[DiskoJoe]

Its a little late to ask this now. You should have asked this before the club. Those people were drunk and probably wont buy crap now, lol. Plus you have nothing set up where you could charge. Get a deviantart account and refer people to there. They have a store built into it where you can set prices.

 

[Kaylaidan]

is it too much to ask for a straight answer without the elitist snobby remarks!?!?!?

1. what i title myself in RI has no affect on your career in FL... so if i decide to call myself semi-pro, that should be of no concern to you, since my intentions have been to make a career out of photography when i started going to school for it, and i started going to school for it because i wouldn't feel right trying to make money on my work if i didn't have some training, that should be of no concern to you! i do not call myself a PRO since i am just learning and i am a student, hence the word SEMI, as in partially, meaning not completely professional and since the moment you begin selling your art, you are in fact, at least semi, PROFESSIONAL!!!

2. i have sold my work before, but only in print, matted and finished, and only of scenic shots. i did not think to ask before since i was not expecting to sell to individuals, nor was i expecting to price a slideshow... i was expecting to experiment with club lighting and gain some experience shooting people as i have always been more scenic and abstract in style. my original intention on making money on club photography was to be hired by event promoters to shoot their events, something i could negotiate with the promoter... is it really to late to ask after learning of another way to make money when it was the first time presented with an opportunity.. or perhaps it is the right time to ask, since it means i will be better prepared going forward.. it is impossible to ask a question if you have no way of knowing what to ask in the first place!!!

i do appreciate the advice on using deviantart since i had been using FB and realize that it is a weak platform to conduct business! but i must point out that those drunk people have been asking me to buy the pics all week, but i have been slowed by a busted computer (waiting for a new processor) which is currently running at the speed of snail, and it is taking 2 hours to do something in photoshop that should only take 5 minutes...

always remember when answering a newbie question, you were once a newbie too... i have been in sales for 15 years and i am sure i could outsell almost anyone on this forum, but if someone asked me a sales question from the POV of a beginning salesmen, i would answer them with the same level of respect i would want for myself when asking someone with 30 years experience!!!

 

[tirediron]

...always remember when answering a newbie question, you were once a newbie too... i have been in sales for 15 years and i am sure i could outsell almost anyone on this forum, but if someone asked me a sales question from the POV of a beginning salesmen, i would answer them with the same level of respect i would want for myself when asking someone with 30 years experience!!!

I would submit that if you have fifteen years of sales experience, and consider yourself a professional of any degree, than all of these are things that should have been worked out before-hand. The business of photography is very little about photography, and very much about business. Draft your business plan, determine your CODB, COGS, etc, factoring in insurance, professional fees, etc.

Now, all of that aside, what is the relevance of how much someone else charges? While I don't mind answering the question, there's nowhere near enough information for me to give you an answer. What is your monthly CODB? How many hours of work is invested in each project? What is the size of the club, and typical attendance? How long would they want the images (slide-show) for? What licensing rights do they want (exclusive, non-exclusive, etc)?

 

[cgipson1]

YOu will have to forgive the "elitist snobby" remarks.... it is just that we see so many people asking this kind of question! And they got their camera last week... or a month ago! (no previous experience). They are mostly Ambient "Natural" Light photographers.. that don't know how to use a flash, do PP, or even have basic focusing / exposure skills down!

But hey.. NOW they own a PROFESSIONAL camera (usually a low end entry level body with a kit lens).. so they are ready to hang out a shingle!

If you know anything about business.. figure out your CODB.. and base your prices on that!

How should we know what to tell you? We don't have any idea how good (or BAD) you are.... no idea what it costs you do shoot, print, advertise, pay for insurance, etc.. or if you even have business license / Tax ID!

THIS is why you got the "elitist snobby" remarks...

(And I stayed out of your thread prior to this.. because I absolutely detest Amateurs that turn out total crap and charge for it (that is not aimed at you, unless the shoe fits).. and am usually VERY RUDE about it! And since you haven't posted any shots, and are asking the usual PRO-Wannabe questions... we have no way of knowing whether you are GOOD or BAD!)

Hope this is helpful....

 

[imagemaker46]

First of all, you are an amateur with a camera, selling a few photos does not make you a pro of any kind, it still makes you an amateur in school making a few sales. Having a "pro looking camera" these days is anything bigger than an i-phone. Charge whatever you want, once you get your semi-pro computer fixed, you can use your semi-pro printer, run off 4x6 prints on photo paper and charge them a couple of bucks, anything over $5 and I'm not sure you'll sell anything. Charge the owner of the place, what you consider your computer time is worth, if it takes you an hour to burn them to a CD, ask him for $100 and see what he says.

 

[KmH]

is it too much to ask for a straight answer without the elitist snobby remarks!?!?!?

!!!

Yes it is to much to ask, considering the scant information you provided.

I looked at your thread yesterday, tried to compose a coherent reply, and realized I couldn't with out substantially more information.

Then I realized the all lower case type, no paragraphs, and ... was a significant clue, and I moved on.

 

[cgipson1]

Oh.. I didn't answer your question! $2000.00

 

[Kaylaidan]

...always remember when answering a newbie question, you were once a newbie too... i have been in sales for 15 years and i am sure i could outsell almost anyone on this forum, but if someone asked me a sales question from the POV of a beginning salesmen, i would answer them with the same level of respect i would want for myself when asking someone with 30 years experience!!!

I would submit that if you have fifteen years of sales experience, and consider yourself a professional of any degree, than all of these are things that should have been worked out before-hand. The business of photography is very little about photography, and very much about business. Draft your business plan, determine your CODB, COGS, etc, factoring in insurance, professional fees, etc.

Now, all of that aside, what is the relevance of how much someone else charges? While I don't mind answering the question, there's nowhere near enough information for me to give you an answer. What is your monthly CODB? How many hours of work is invested in each project? What is the size of the club, and typical attendance? How long would they want the images (slide-show) for? What licensing rights do they want (exclusive, non-exclusive, etc)?

That is how you answer someone with respect! I hope my less casual writing style is good enough for KmH, since I am also a writer and did not think I was being judged on my grammatical prowess on a casual photography forum. I certainly understand that I am a newbie, and am well aware that many elitists don't want to answer newbie questions. I certainly appreciate your point, cgipson1, that if you get annoyed with answering newly professional questions... DON'T!

I did not get my camera last week, though yes I have been using a point and shoot for years. I did get my "entry level" DSLR (rebel T3i) recently, but not until I had made the decision to make a career of it. I have been unemployed, due to a rough economy, for two years now, and have decided to pursue my two biggest passions, writing and photography. The unfortunate financial situation I find myself in, while trying desperately to keep my family afloat, has precluded me from purchasing any equipment beyond what I can afford. Thankfully, my wife was able to scrape enough money together to buy me what I now have! I am, however, an advocate for the premise that equipment does not make a photographer great. I started taking photographs when I was a young child with my mother's 35mm SLR, knowing nothing about how to use it other then how to focus and release the shutter. One of my favorite shots I have ever taken was with a disposable camera, though it cannot be blown up larger then 4x7 due to that fact. My point is that those of you who pass judgement on others who perhaps cannot afford an $8,000 camera... should stick that $8G camera up your...

I am attending school since I would consider it disrespectful to those with years of experience if I attempted to pass myself off as a professional photographer without any proper training. I even explained to the owner of the bar, that I am just starting out and had no idea what kind of a price to tell him, especially since I had not thought of making a slideshow until asked to do so... makes it kinda hard to have sorted out the price in the first place.

I have not posted any photos, yet, because I cooked the processor on my desktop and I have been waiting for a new processor that I ordered. Fortunately that came in the mail today and I will be working on performing computer surgery this Friday, when I do not have any of the five classes that I am taking this semester.

Having been in sales, not business, for fifteen years, I am also taking a course in business to ensure I am able to make a solid profit from my work. So to that point, I freely admit that I am learning the art of business as well. I do have a strong knowledge in the art of selling and completely realize that sales is the art of selling yourself, something many of you have failed to do on this thread. In fact, I would say you have done a great job at "un-selling" the appeal of this forum. Clearly most of you have not read the intro to this particular section of the website, so allow me to remind you...

"Looking to make your hobby into a business? Already in business? This is the place for you. Discuss marketing, pricing, legal issues and other ideas relating to the business of photography."

I am sure there are many highly experienced and amazing photographers who have no prejudice toward start ups and would be more then willing to answer questions and give advice without demeaning or degrading those who need to ask. For those, few as they may be, I am more then willing to give more information, knowing now what information is needed. Incidentally, the method of teaching and learning by asking questions and answering with more questions, only to be followed by even more questions, is called the Socratic method. Though perhaps not the one who coined the phrase, Socrates certainly put forth the point that "there is no stupid question, except the one not asked!"

I can figure out my own CODB and things of that nature, my question was more on the market rate. Anyone who does know anything about business, understands that this is important since you don't want to over price yourself out of a job, and also do not want to under cut any other professional's prices. The LCD's are primarily used for photography slideshows, the current one being 6 months old. Occasionally they show visual graphics, but I have not seen that in a while. It is a relatively small club and there were approximately 100 - 150 patrons that night. I currently have about 40 - 50 shots that I have deemed above par and I will be going back to shoot more if needed. I am not conceded about my photographs, though I would rate myself much better then the average amateur, but not quite as good as the avg. professional and certainly not stuck up enough to think otherwise. That is a trait I have seen many professionals possess who produce crap and think because they took it with an expensive camera and Photoshopped the hell out of it, that it is worth money!

I have already figured out pricing for the individual shots, which I did have an amount in mind to begin with, but was looking for a little reassurance that i was being fair. All that being said, allow me to clarify my original question. Since I have never done, nor thought of before, a slideshow, what is the going rate and how many pictures are a good amount for 30 minutes? (not that I will make it 30 minutes, but that will allow me to calculate whether or not I need more, depending on the amount of time the client wants) If it helps, imagine that I am a customer asking you what I can expect to pay! If this is not enough info, let me know and I will try my best to answer more.

I hope that is formal enough for you KmH!!!! (unfortunately there is no emoticon to say "you're number 1")

 

[Kaylaidan]

Oh.. I didn't answer your question! $2000.00

LOL

I do appreciate sarcasm, when done respectfully!

 

[tirediron]

... I have already figured out pricing for the individual shots, which I did have an amount in mind to begin with, but was looking for a little reassurance that i was being fair. All that being said, allow me to clarify my original question. Since I have never done, nor thought of before, a slideshow, what is the going rate and how many pictures are a good amount for 30 minutes? (not that I will make it 30 minutes, but that will allow me to calculate whether or not I need more, depending on the amount of time the client wants) If it helps, imagine that I am a customer asking you what I can expect to pay! If this is not enough info, let me know and I will try my best to answer more.

If the price for your shots meets all your requirements, then it's fair. If the client doesn't want to pay that, too bad. DON'T cut your prices! As for the number of shots, I would say 5-7 seconds per image would be a reasonable display time, say, roughly 10 images/minute. With respect to the fee, I would base it largely on the size of the club, # of patrons, etc. In other words, a small club with a typical nightly intake of ~100 people would pay a LOT less than a club that sees 1000 people/night through the door.

 

[gsgary]

You will go a long way on here with remarks like this "is it too much to ask for a straight answer without the elitist snobby remarks!?!?!?"

 

[andywag]

That is how you answer someone with respect! I hope my less casual writing style is good enough for KmH, since I am also a writer and did not think I was being judged on my grammatical prowess on a casual photography forum. I certainly understand that I am a newbie, and am well aware that many elitists don't want to answer newbie questions. I certainly appreciate your point, cgipson1, that if you get annoyed with answering newly professional questions... DON'T!
Etc etc, rant, rave, blah blah........

OK now you have had your little tantrum maybe you will stop and realise that there is not, never has been and never will be a straight answer to the question "how much should I charge for x or y".
There are numerous variables, not the least being your own costs and the usage amongst many others.

How much I or others would charge has little bearing on what YOU should or could be charging. Also not forgetting the www is world wide so my costs/prices in London would/could be vastly different than Anywhereville, Middle of nowhere, USA.

The starting point if you know no different is your costs plus a percentage. What that percentage is is entirely upto you.
For slideshows, it depends on how much work is going to go into it and what the end usage will be. If you are just sticking a load of snaps into windows movie maker or something and spending 10 minutes then that is a lot different than spending a couple of hours in Photodex Producer doing loads of transition effects, synching music etc.
"normally" you would look at each image being 3 to 7 or 8 seconds so for a 30 minute show you would be looking at around 250 or more images (way to many for any normal slide show).
For a basic slideshow with 200 or so images I would start at around £200, for commercial use that would be anything from double to 10 times that depending on use and if they wanted a "fancy" show then I would double the starting price and work up.