How the public - and industry - sees photographers

[Ilovemycam]

speaking of iPad

This asshat decided to step in the way at the graduation I was shooting at this weekend. I even had the 100-400 lens on so I could be out of others' way and try to shoot around asshats like this. Doesn't always work.

LOL, what a Padhole!

Don't be a Padhole.

We used to carry empty film canisters to throw at other photographers that did this. One of the big things that I learned at an early age, before you move, look behind and see if anyone is there. Seems these days, courtesy is lost on the idiots.

Just got to do what you gotta do. Bresson said he held his cam way up over his head 'unframed' to get this shot...

http://www.artvalue.com/photos/auct...00-cardinal-pacelli-later-pope-pi-1735251.jpg

 

[Derrel]

Here's a blog that deals with the current in-flux situation of the photography market. This specific post deals with the "new realities" on both the photographer side, the buyer/licensor side, and the viewer side. As he writes at the start of the post:

"We are on the footsteps of a new photography landscape that is or will be affecting everyone who intends to draw substantial revenue operating a camera. While we can see and feel the changes, how to adapt is not evident. Mostly because we are trying to apply or adapt old models to new rules and it just doesn’t fit."

reThinking photography | Thoughts of a Bohemian

 

[amolitor]

Here's a blog that deals with the current in-flux situation of the photography market. This specific post deals with the "new realities" on both the photographer side, the buyer/licensor side, and the viewer side. As he writes at the start of the post:

"We are on the footsteps of a new photography landscape that is or will be affecting everyone who intends to draw substantial revenue operating a camera. While we can see and feel the changes, how to adapt is not evident. Mostly because we are trying to apply or adapt old models to new rules and it just doesn’t fit."

reThinking photography | Thoughts of a Bohemian

Great article, Derrel. I think it's only a piece of the puzzle, they seem to be thinking mostly about stock and editorial imagery, but still they've got hold of the essentials.

For Art I think not much has changed. The Art world is all over the problem of sifting Way Too Much down to a very high end trickle, a medium high end stream, and lower end flows of various sizes. They're used to simply tossing aside tons of excellent work based on more or less random criteria.

Journalism? I dunno, I think that's pretty much cooked at this point. There's cell phones and surveillance cameras everywhere now, the images you need are free, why would you pay a guy?

Event photography is where it's interesting to me, and to many TPFers. If I were a wedding guy I'd be learning tintypes or ambrotypes, and building "experience" packages around photo sessions that produce these unique objects. Wine, cheese, a limo, dress up and shoot some ambrotypes, then you guys head out to the bachelor(ette) parties while I go muck around with chemicals. Your ambrotype is available at the wedding, in a bespoke wooden box.

 

[Ilovemycam]

Here's a blog that deals with the current in-flux situation of the photography market. This specific post deals with the "new realities" on both the photographer side, the buyer/licensor side, and the viewer side. As he writes at the start of the post:

"We are on the footsteps of a new photography landscape that is or will be affecting everyone who intends to draw substantial revenue operating a camera. While we can see and feel the changes, how to adapt is not evident. Mostly because we are trying to apply or adapt old models to new rules and it just doesn’t fit."

reThinking photography | Thoughts of a Bohemian

Thanks for the link!

 

[amolitor]

The future of museums and their photography print collection may be quite a bit different from the current state of being if they wish to keep collecting. A common complaint I hear from many curators is space limitations and conservation costs.

I have to wonder how the over loaded museums will house the generations of work that photographers have yet to produce. There is no room at the inn for any of them it seems. Something will have to give…

I now propose in my gift proposals that a museum take hi res TIFF files in place of prints if this prints are a deal breaker fue to these issues. Some photographers may not be as eager to give out high resolution files. But the museums can put it out there and it may become a new trend and S.O.P. with museums that would like to expand their collections, but have no room for new works.

You seem to have some very peculiar ideas about how museums work, and what their function is.

 

[Ilovemycam]

The future of museums and their photography print collection may be quite a bit different from the current state of being if they wish to keep collecting. A common complaint I hear from many curators is space limitations and conservation costs.

I have to wonder how the over loaded museums will house the generations of work that photographers have yet to produce. There is no room at the inn for any of them it seems. Something will have to give…

I now propose in my gift proposals that a museum take hi res TIFF files in place of prints if this prints are a deal breaker fue to these issues. Some photographers may not be as eager to give out high resolution files. But the museums can put it out there and it may become a new trend and S.O.P. with museums that would like to expand their collections, but have no room for new works.

You seem to have some very peculiar ideas about how museums work, and what their function is.

Well, what is the answer if I am wrong?

 

[Gavjenks]

I think he is suggesting that the purpose of a museum is not to collect and archive every photograph taken or sent to them ever.

The purpose is to expose the public to high quality and unique works of art.

Thus, storage and conservation doesn't have to be that much of a massive issue. Photographs are pretty easy to store compared to lots of things museums display (fragile pottery, etc.), and they would only have reason to store ones that are special enough to consider actually displaying at some point.

Digital proliferatioin increases the volume of works that are all largely of the same type, but it doesn't necessarily increase the rate of innovation, or therefore the rate of groundbreaking or novel photographs being produced that a museum might be most interested in.



Or even if it does increase the rate of innovation, you also have to consider: What were those same people doing before? If, for instance, people who used to be creative with pottery or pastels switched to digital photography when it got cheap, then more photographs yes, but fewer pots and pastels. Which could potentially actually EASE the burden on museums, since again, photos are easier to store than most other things.

 

[ApKPhoto]

Here's a blog that deals with the current in-flux situation of the photography market. This specific post deals with the "new realities" on both the photographer side, the buyer/licensor side, and the viewer side. As he writes at the start of the post:

"We are on the footsteps of a new photography landscape that is or will be affecting everyone who intends to draw substantial revenue operating a camera. While we can see and feel the changes, how to adapt is not evident. Mostly because we are trying to apply or adapt old models to new rules and it just doesn’t fit."

reThinking photography | Thoughts of a Bohemian

Excellent food for thought...sadly it confirms my suspicion that making any income as a photographer is becoming more and more difficult in the digital era. Not due to the proliferation of cameras and hobbyists, but rather due to the shift in client/consumer experiences, and how those expectations are changing the value of most visual arts.

 

[gsgary]

Here's a blog that deals with the current in-flux situation of the photography market. This specific post deals with the "new realities" on both the photographer side, the buyer/licensor side, and the viewer side. As he writes at the start of the post:

"We are on the footsteps of a new photography landscape that is or will be affecting everyone who intends to draw substantial revenue operating a camera. While we can see and feel the changes, how to adapt is not evident. Mostly because we are trying to apply or adapt old models to new rules and it just doesn’t fit."

reThinking photography | Thoughts of a Bohemian

Great article, Derrel. I think it's only a piece of the puzzle, they seem to be thinking mostly about stock and editorial imagery, but still they've got hold of the essentials.

For Art I think not much has changed. The Art world is all over the problem of sifting Way Too Much down to a very high end trickle, a medium high end stream, and lower end flows of various sizes. They're used to simply tossing aside tons of excellent work based on more or less random criteria.

Journalism? I dunno, I think that's pretty much cooked at this point. There's cell phones and surveillance cameras everywhere now, the images you need are free, why would you pay a guy?

Event photography is where it's interesting to me, and to many TPFers. If I were a wedding guy I'd be learning tintypes or ambrotypes, and building "experience" packages around photo sessions that produce these unique objects. Wine, cheese, a limo, dress up and shoot some ambrotypes, then you guys head out to the bachelor(ette) parties while I go muck around with chemicals. Your ambrotype is available at the wedding, in a bespoke wooden box.

Quite a few wedding photographers over here have gone back to film, Best Buy don't sell a film camera wedding package with 5 minutes training package

 

[Ilovemycam]

Now, when it comes to getting work accepted into museums...it is very, very hard. At least when it comes to getting into the better known museums. (And I'm not talking about Gugg or MOMA, I mean medium size museums.) Sometimes it can take 1-1/2 years to get approval.

You not only have to be favored by the Curator, but the Deputy Director and Director has to like your work as well as the Board.

In my early days of museum work I learned a hard lesson. My work was accepted by the Curator and presented to the Board by the Director. I felt sure they would accept it. So much that I listed it on my bio as in their permanent collection. Then after the Board met in 5 months I got the news the Board voted against accepting the gift. I had to rush and remove it from my bio. Luckily the mishap did not go any further.

Here is a rundown of what a photography Curator does...I've red faced the main problem below.


The Curator of Photographs will have overall responsibility for the stewardship and development of the Museum’s extensive holdings of photographs.· The Curator of Photographs will be responsible for but not limited to performing the following job functions:

- Provides overall direction to the department and its activities including the mission, goals, and strategies of the Art Museum.

- Demonstrates curatorial responsibility for all art objects within the aegis of the curatorial department, and works in cooperation with other curators where departmental responsibilities for art objects overlap, for example with contemporary art or where an artist is ascribed dual nationalities.

- Cares for, researches, documents, exhibits, preserves (in consultation with the Conservation Department), and publishes works of art in the permanent collection, including those in storage or display.

- Responsible for the generation of temporary exhibitions, whether from concept or by assignment, organized by the Museum or by another institution.· Exhibitions involve organizing, researching, writing, supervising and/or coordinating details such as lectures, catalogues, brochures, labels, installation, photography, gallery tours, publicity, fund raising, presentations on· the exhibition topic, selection and negotiation of loans, hosting lenders and artists, and preparation of and adherence to budgets.· Museum procedures have to be followed, and all activities have to be coordinated with all relevant existing divisions such as: Museum Services, Development, Marketing/Public Service, and Learning and Interpretation.

- Lectures and writes on works of art in the Museum’s permanent collection(s) for scholarly meetings and/or publications, or general and particularized programs within the Museum, for books, newspapers, and general publications, all within the limits of curatorial specialties and based on or related to the permanent collections of the Museum.· Where necessary, all writing (e.g., grant writing, newspaper writing, brochure texts) must be coordinated with the proper division, such as Learning and Interpretation, Development, or Marketing/Public Service.

- Seeks and recommends new acquisitions of gifts or purchases within the curatorial specialties or the permanent collections, including scholarly research and background material to justify consideration of a given art object or objects and prepares acquisition worksheets.·

Gifts and purchases are recommended by the curator to the Deputy Director, Curatorial Affairs who recommends them to the Director and ultimately the Collections and Acquisitions Committee of the Board.· No works of art may be purchased or accepted as gifts without the Director’s and the Board’s approval.

- Furnishes consultation and advice on art matters to other museums, public and private collectors, at no time suggesting financial appraisals.

- Installs and labels works of art in the permanent collections in concert with the divisions of Learning and Interpretation and Museum Services.

- Responsible for division, maintaining and adhering to all relative budgets, including those related to permanent installations, temporary exhibitions, the department and special projects.· Where applicable, supervises departmental staff, including volunteers.

- Responsible for docent training, public lectures, gallery talks, and press education for selected projects in coordination with the divisions of Development, Learning and Interpretation, and Marketing/Public Service.

- Supports the fund-raising and public relations efforts of the Museum, in coordination with the divisions of Development and Marketing/Public Services.

- Serves as liaison between the Museum and departmental visiting committees and other groups with special interest in or support of the department.· Represents museum at social and civic events.

- Serves on various committees or panels, and attends meetings demanded by the position.

- Acts as courier in U.S. and abroad in coordination with the division of Museum Services.· Attends conferences and lectures, and visits museums and dealers in U.S. and abroad.

- Performs other miscellaneous duties as assigned by the Chief Curator.

Requirements: M.A. in Art History (Ph.D. preferred) with a minimum of five years relevant experience in the field.

Skills necessary: A proven ability to work successfully with others to achieve institutional objectives.· Must possess a broad familiarity with photographs; a demonstrated knowledge of museum practices; excellent written and oral communication skills; good working knowledge of database, word processing, and other relevant computer programs; and a commitment to both scholarship and working with diverse public constituencies; ability to present information effectively and respond to questions from museum staff, donors, members of the museum, and the general public.·
The Curator of Photographs must be able to create and manage program budgets.

End


Can you imaging doing all the work to acquire works of art, getting the Deputy Director, then the Director on board, work on it for over a year, then having the Board of Directors vote it down. And I'm not talking purchases either, I am talking free gifts.

Now of course museums have to be fussy. But if the art was not good to start with it could never get as far as a Board vote. None of the people I've mentioned along the chain of command are artists or photographers. (At least one's whose work would ever get into a museum.) But if artists ran the museums they would really be in deep $$ trouble!

It is much, much easier getting work accepted into the special collections of rare book libraries. But the catch is libraries usually wont accept loose prints, but they will accept bound prints. Museums usually wont accept bound prints, but they will accept loose prints. (If your lucky.)

With rare book libraries you only have to get approval from the Director or the head special collections librarian. And I am not talking about any library, I am talking about the most prestigious libraries in the world.

But, if you thinking of contacting Oxford Bodleian or the British Library to send your Blurb book to their special collections....forget it. I am talking about very special, limited edition, hand printed, hand bound books on rag paper that I produce that would sell for $5000 a copy. (The Hahn duo rag paper alone is $160 per book.)

Those are the type of contemporary photo books they will accept into the special collection. And the books must have content they want as well. In my case, a $5000 book did not matter, as my content was not liked by some Directors that refused the gift.

Still I was successful about 14 times out of 60 with my rare book library solicitations and getting my limited edition book placed. (Three of the rare book libraries even accepted loose print portfolios in addition to my book. So always ask, you never know. I am reducing the size of the portfolio I offer to 11 x 14 from 13 x 19 for any future solicitations. It is getting too expensive shipping large size prints overseas.)

Once you have a footing with the rare book libraries you may have a chance with getting the curators attention at a connected museum. Such as Victoria and Albert in the UK, Getty's GRI, Rhode Island School of Design, they all have an art museum and connection to their art library.

 

[Ilovemycam]

Here's a blog that deals with the current in-flux situation of the photography market. This specific post deals with the "new realities" on both the photographer side, the buyer/licensor side, and the viewer side. As he writes at the start of the post:

"We are on the footsteps of a new photography landscape that is or will be affecting everyone who intends to draw substantial revenue operating a camera. While we can see and feel the changes, how to adapt is not evident. Mostly because we are trying to apply or adapt old models to new rules and it just doesn’t fit."

reThinking photography | Thoughts of a Bohemian

Excellent food for thought...sadly it confirms my suspicion that making any income as a photographer is becoming more and more difficult in the digital era. Not due to the proliferation of cameras and hobbyists, but rather due to the shift in client/consumer experiences, and how those expectations are changing the value of most visual arts.

If I had to make a living at it...it would ruin photography for me.

 

[amolitor]

Museums, in general, are constantly fighting off free gifts, often from people who have given them millions of dollars. Unsolicited portfolios will invariably be tossed, and properly. Museums are, mostly, not in the business of finding new artists.

 

[Ilovemycam]

Museums, in general, are constantly fighting off free gifts, often from people who have given them millions of dollars. Unsolicited portfolios will invariably be tossed, and properly. Museums are, mostly, not in the business of finding new artists.

That is true Amolitor.

But when millions are involved, the donor is usually sharp enough to get their demands put into the 'deed of gift' up front before they hand over cash. The special collections library of the Gugg wanted a copy of my hand printed book. But they refused to put any terms on the donation.

What was my terms? You keep it in the special collection.

What was their terms? We can do or dispose of it as we please.

I've had a few donation offers like that for my book and I refuse. I would take a chance on giving out prints with no terms, but not my hand printed book. That thing is hell to print up. I'm very fussy where it goes.

 

[Gavjenks]

Why would you produce a book specifically for the purpose of having it filed away on a shelf in some special collections library somewhere? I'm not sure I understand. A museum, sure, maybe they will display it if they like it enough to accept it in the first place. But a library? Nobody would go to check out the book, because how would they even know it existed if it was sent to the library immediately after production and is a one of a kind copy?

I'm probably just misunderstanding something, but this whole vein of conversation is very confusing.

 

[The_Traveler]

Museums, in general, are constantly fighting off free gifts, often from people who have given them millions of dollars. Unsolicited portfolios will invariably be tossed, and properly. Museums are, mostly, not in the business of finding new artists.

That is true Amolitor.

But when millions are involved, the donor is usually sharp enough to get their demands put into the 'deed of gift' up front before they hand over cash. The special collections library of the Gugg wanted a copy of my hand printed book. But they refused to put any terms on the donation.

What was my terms? You keep it in the special collection.

What was their terms? We can do or dispose of it as we please.

I've had a few donation offers like that for my book and I refuse. I would take a chance on giving out prints with no terms, but not my hand printed book. That thing is hell to print up. I'm very fussy where it goes.

On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

All of your responses are based on experiences you had personally, and they seem at the least rather unlikely and at the most just BS.
Why not post some links to your work, your experience, your reviews so that we can understand just how much weight to attach to what seems like a constant stream of self-referential, self-aggrandizing poop?