How the public - and industry - sees photographers

[runnah]

On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

My secret has been revealed! I am actually a well trained Siberian husky.

 

[The_Traveler]

On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

My secret has been revealed! I am actually a well trained Siberian husky.

not so well trained

 

[runnah]

not so well trained

Hey I only got into the trash once this week! It wasn't my fault tho, my handlers had ribs so what's a dog to do?!

 

[Ilovemycam]

Why would you produce a book specifically for the purpose of having it filed away on a shelf in some special collections library somewhere? I'm not sure I understand. A museum, sure, maybe they will display it if they like it enough to accept it in the first place. But a library? Nobody would go to check out the book, because how would they even know it existed if it was sent to the library immediately after production and is a one of a kind copy?

I'm probably just misunderstanding something, but this whole vein of conversation is very confusing.

What is confusing?

Amolitor commented on museums and I posted about areas of museums I have a little knowledge in. The thread is about how photographers are viewed. I am replying to how museums and rare book libraries view photographers in relation to my dealings with them.

I find it a great honor to have my original photographs housed in such prestigious institutions.

Why would you not want your original photographs archived in such storied and fantastic repositories as this?

http://mag.bent.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/oxford-01.jpg

It is even worse than you think with 'getting lost' in the library.

You can't just go look at my book, you will have to fill out special requests to see it and then the rare book librarian has to go find it. I gave the libraries jpeg's of all my photos. At least one library will put all of the images online. I also gave then a PDF and flip book version if they wnat to make it more mainstream.

When you have a photo in a museum it is not on display 99.9999% of the time...if ever. Works on paper are stored away and seldom put out or looked at. Most of the photos are not able to be viewed online either.

It is true my book may be lost in the special collections. New arrivals are announced online and recent acquisitions get their 15 minutes of fame and then who knows when it will be looked at again. Researchers, faculty and scholars make use of the special collections.

My book is a very odd subject matter as well. My book deals in part with Hollywood (not the glitz, but the opposite end of the spectrum) and that is a popular subject, esp overseas. So that is something in favor of my book. And my book is historical as the main body of photos was shot in the 70's.

The rare book libraries books are not filed away as many libraries store books on shelves. Most of the libraries make hand made acid free boxes for the books and store their special collections under lock and key.

Do you see any members on this forum doing preservation work like I am doing in this area?

Does anyone else post on the subjects I do?

Same thing with the type of photos I produce. I seem to be on a different wave length than the rest of you. Sure, I'd like if someone would help me out with all this, but I have no one to turn to for guidance on the forums. I just learn as I go...screwups and all.

I've been on maybe 15 photo forums. No one I have ever seen on the forums produce photos like mine. Sure some photogs are a lot better techs than me. But subject matter no and presentation style very, very few.

I guess the question is this. Why any of you would you not want to have your work in libraries like this? That is confusing???

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3134/3210113563_0bf6afc1d7.jpg

http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000LF1fL4VAQ7A/s/900/900/london-2087.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1136/1023775360_d37c35a292.jpg

 

[The_Traveler]

My book is a very odd subject matter as well. My book deals in part with Hollywood (not the glitz, but the opposite end of the spectrum) and that is a popular subject, esp overseas. So that is something in favor of my book. And my book is historical as the main body of photos was shot in the 70's.

Do you see any members on this forum doing preservation work like I am doing in this area?

Does anyone else post on the subjects I do?

Actually, I can't compare your work to anyone else's because you talk about it in the abstract and we've never seen anything real.

To quote myself:

All of your responses are based on experiences you had personally, and they seem at the least rather unlikely and at the most just BS.
Why not post some links to your work, your experience, your reviews so that we can understand just how much weight to attach to what seems like a constant stream of self-referential, self-aggrandizing poop?

Come on, stop the hand waving.
If you are going to claim that your experience has some weight, prove your experience.

 

[amolitor]

I think there's an excellent reason he doesn't post his work. You can find his tumblrs without much effort.

 

[12sndsgood]

apparently my keys are on the same level as works of are in a museum. havn't seen them for days. nobody seems to know where they are and will probably never be seen again.

 

[The_Traveler]

I think there's an excellent reason he doesn't post his work. You can find his tumblrs without much effort.

I don't know tumblr - or how to find specific images there - and, tbh, it is not of too much interest to me to learn.

 

[lndsybckr]

Seeing the I-pad 'special' shooter, it confirms what I learned about 40 years ago when I started taking pictures of trains in earnest...having consideration for 'the other guy' is a disappearing 'art'. Even amongst 'trained' rail photographers, there's ALWAYS some jerk that will step in front of the guy set up on a tripod when the train comes. These days, too many people are only concerned with what they want to do/satisfying themselves and everyone else can go someplace else.

Unfortunately, we who do practice 'courtesy' are a dying breed. The days of cell phone and ipad photography just adds to the 'jerk' class of photographer at an ever increasing pace. We have no choice but to deal with it.

Although, maybe we could tell some of the jerks that the big white lens and camera: "is a 44 magnum...the most powerful handgun in the world..."

Just getting my feet wet in this forum and photography as a whole, and let me tell you.. You guys are really intimidating and I find it hard to believe I will post any of my shots here for critique. I used to take pictures with my cell phone all the time, and I think they turned out pretty good for what I was working with. And I wasn't a jerk while taking pictures, either.

 

[The_Traveler]

Just getting my feet wet in this forum and photography as a whole, and let me tell you.. You guys are really intimidating and I find it hard to believe I will post any of my shots here for critique. I used to take pictures with my cell phone all the time, and I think they turned out pretty good for what I was working with. And I wasn't a jerk while taking pictures, either.

I think you will find that as long as you represent yourself as what you really are, then you will get a kind and useful response.
It is when people stomp around all full of themselves that they take some crap.

Photography is tough and I predict that you will eventually look back at the pictures you took before and realize how bad they are in comparison with what you will be able to do.

 

[PixelRabbit]

Seeing the I-pad 'special' shooter, it confirms what I learned about 40 years ago when I started taking pictures of trains in earnest...having consideration for 'the other guy' is a disappearing 'art'. Even amongst 'trained' rail photographers, there's ALWAYS some jerk that will step in front of the guy set up on a tripod when the train comes. These days, too many people are only concerned with what they want to do/satisfying themselves and everyone else can go someplace else.

Unfortunately, we who do practice 'courtesy' are a dying breed. The days of cell phone and ipad photography just adds to the 'jerk' class of photographer at an ever increasing pace. We have no choice but to deal with it.

Although, maybe we could tell some of the jerks that the big white lens and camera: "is a 44 magnum...the most powerful handgun in the world..."

Just getting my feet wet in this forum and photography as a whole, and let me tell you.. You guys are really intimidating and I find it hard to believe I will post any of my shots here for critique. I used to take pictures with my cell phone all the time, and I think they turned out pretty good for what I was working with. And I wasn't a jerk while taking pictures, either.

If you want to learn and improve instead of feeling intimidated be realistic, honest and open to criticism and post! If you take responsibility for your learning and use the forum as a tool you will get SO much out of it. If you attach personal feelings to the posts you receive, specifically the "negative" ones that pick apart your work and point you in a different direction you will cut yourself off at the knees, it is NOT personal. If you post and learn and post again applying what you have learned people will be more than willing to help, the key is your input and processing of the feedback you receive. We all started somewhere, it's up to you how far you take yourself and Lew is absolutely correct, what looks good to you today will look much different to you a year from now.

 

[gsgary]

On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

My secret has been revealed! I am actually a well trained Siberian husky.

****su (Shih Tzu)

 

[Gavjenks]

Regarding museums and libraries:

Obviously it is an honor to have your work in them no matter what, but it seems like less of an honor if the idea was the artist's, and if it's not actually on display or able to be checked out, etc. But more importantly, it just seems backward. Libraries are for archiving and museums are for displaying what are agreed to be meaningful advances in an art or conxpicuous examples of important trends or movements in the history of an art, so that patrons can be exposed to a good representative layout of whatever field the museum specializes in.

Neither of them seem like places to be recognizing brand new work, because brand new work won't really be established yet by the community as part of a trend, nor is it really being archived in the traditional sense if the only copies are themselves in archives and have only EVER been in archives. It's not really preserving a snapshot of the world. It's preserving a snapshot of the preservation itself, which is odd.



If you have a book, it seems it would make much more sense to get it published in the main popular press. Or if you are treating it more as a one-off work of art that largely holds value in its form not just its informational content (like a bronze sculpture or something), then alternatively, sell it at auctions or in galleries.

Then the libraries would seek it out if it was published and people enjoyed it such that it became popular, without even having to ask them. And museums would be much more likely to pick up the prints too if they had a pedigree of having sold for large amounts of money at auction or if they caused a media stir or if some art historians published something interesting about them / they challenged theory, etc.

So:
1) If the work has actually been out there in the world and seen and reacted to positively by people, it is much more likely to get into libraries or museums with much less effort,
2) Being CHOSEN to be archived of the archivist's own volition seems like it would be vastly more of a honor to me anyway. As opposed to successfully convincing somebody to make room in one of their drawers for a free copy of something. And also,
3) If somebody chooses to want your work, then they are going to put it on display much more of the time, and/or make it available to people more easily.

 

[sleist]

Lew is absolutely correct, what looks good to you today will look much different to you a year from now.

Eventually you'll think everything you shoot looks like crap. This is because it does.
Then you'll either put down the camera and take up golf or something, or you'll push through the barrier and get good.

Eventually you'll think everything you shoot looks like crap again. This is because it does (because the bar is higher).
Then you'll either put down the camera and take up golf or something, or you'll push through the barrier and get better.

Eventually you'll think everything you shoot looks like crap again. This is because it does (because the bar is higher).
Then you'll either put down the camera and take up golf or something, or you'll push through the barrier and get better.

Eventually you'll think everything you shoot looks like crap again. This is because it does (because the bar is higher).
Then you'll either put down the camera and take up golf or something, or you'll push through the barrier and get better.

...

** There are those that buy more expensive cameras instead of taking up golf. These people rarely get better, but they have really nice gear. They take awesome cat pictures and endlessly test their lenses.

 

[lndsybckr]

Thanks for the responses. I get that the critique is about the work, not the person. I even tend to get upset when someone criticizes a meal that I prepared, without realizing the critique is about the recipe and not the chef. What I'm talking about are the uber-photographer jerks who think that just because you're an amateur, it means you don't have the right to try. The same kind of person who stomps around, full of themselves can also be a very accomplished photographer.

I don't plan on becoming a professional at all. In fact, I agree that the market for photography is completely oversaturated and professional photographers are struggling because of it. I just want to try and develop a skill which will provide me with joy and challenge, as well as maybe something to hang on my wall. Lew has made some great remarks and I appreciate the advice. Hopefully I can get over the bruised emotions and learn from you guys.