I am a client and have a question regarding professionalism of a photographer

Red1012 · Jan 26, 2015

Thank you first off for reading and hopefully responding. I need advice as this is eating at me. If I was in the wrong I would like to know as I don't intentionally try to hurt anyone however I do state my mind and more so if I am paying for a service. I will note there was no contract and I did not sign any releases. I was handed a disk with full rights of images.

I booked a grow with me package (3, 6, 9, 12 month pictures along with a family session). I talked to the photographer about what I wanted and liked. She would state that I can have out changes, she allows as much time that is needed, everything sounded great. Fast forward to the first session my husband and I went. I explained that we had a pair of booties that we got in Ireland on our honeymoon when we found out we were expecting and that it is important to us to have a picture with our son with the booties (on or near him). When I received the pictures there were no bootie pictures. None. In fact there were no full body shots either. All were face shots or half body shots.

I contacted her and told her I was going to be honest I was disappointed that we had no bootie pictures and that we had no full body shots. I told her I felt as she rushed through the session as she had her family pictures after our appointment (something she told us when we got there). She immediately took offense and said that it is a distraction to have both parents there and only one should come and she did offer a reshoot. We declined because we were having family pictures in a week.

Family pictures were good. I even told her so.

Now 2 days before 6 months pictures I get a message to bring 1 outfit and stuffed animals. I replied I bought 2 outfits for the pictures. She said fine than forget the stuffed animals. I replied we will just bring the 1 outfit and stuffed animals as you request. I show up and my husband stays in the van as he doesn't feel welcomed to come in for the pictures. As I am changing my son into his outfit she calls her young (guessing 5 year old) down stairs to get her to make my son smile! She has her daughter toss a stuffed animal up in front of him and wiggle it in his face. Well he leans forward and falls off the suitcase she had him on. She caught him but now he is upset and scared and will not smile at all. Not that I expect all pictures to be smiles----but I didn't get a single one.

Regardless I told my husband about this and he was furious as she only wanted one person there and than she gets her daughter downstairs to toss animals around him (mind you she has not even attempted to get him to smile without her daughter there----as I was getting him dressed when she called her down).

I wrote her a very straight forward message stating we will no longer be using her photography:

I just wanted to let you know that my husband and I decided that we are not going to continue to use your photography. We were not completely satisfied with his 3 month shoot which you took complete offense and blamed it on the day/time (which you picked) and than said
not to bring my husband as it is a distraction. You also said that 3 months is not a milestone and more time and poses are done at the 6 month shoot.

The 6 month shoot I thought was extremely unprofessional. As I was getting my son dressed you called your young daughter downstairs to make my baby smile. Which I was in complete shock as you haven’t even attempted to take his pictures and to be honest I pay YOU to take his pictures not your daughter. My husband sat out in the van in your driveway as he was too big of a distraction and you only wanted one of us present. And than you have your daughter tossing stuffed animals up in front of my son and wiggling them in his face. Not appropriate. Not professional. That is something you would do maybe with a friend but never with a client. Not only that but having her wiggle those stuffed animals in his face of course he was going to lean towards them and fell off the suitcase which thankfully you caught him. However, in turn he was scared and did not smile the rest of the shoot.

When my husband found out that you had your daughter present but you did not want him present per your e-mail after the 3 month session he was furious. The whole idea of the grow with me sessions was to build memories. Happy ones. My husband doesn’t feel welcome to his sons pictures and I don't feel as you deliver what you promised from the beginning.

I mentioned I had purchased 2 outfits for his 6 months pictures and it seemed to be an inconvenience for you so I left one at home. We actually went the day after your session to get his pictures taken again so we could have the photos with the outfits that we wanted. When we were with this other photographer, they stated we could have outfit changes, never were rushed in and out, they also involved my husband in to a wonderful picture of having Oliver standing in front of him which is something I wanted. They knew this as they listened and asked what was important to us.

My suggestion to you is to sit down with your clients and discuss what is expected and what is going to be delivered. Go over it, put it in a contract, both sign it. This way it is black and white. Never once did you ask me what I wanted in a picture or what was important to us, the paying clients, to capture. Before paying for the package you were open, willing and seemed easy to work with afterwards not so much.

This was her response:

I feel that I have tolerated verbal abuse from you from the start. I have never had any client complain to me in anyway. I called my child down to try and make the experience fun and laid back for you and him. Since I feel completely uncomfortable and attacked my you. I agree I wish to not go forward being your photographer. I have been doing this for 15 years and never been so insulted in my entire career. No other photographer would have continued as I did. I do not however need criticism from you about my work or the way I conduct my business. You were constantly picturing in your mind certain. Images that didn't turn out how you pictured them and I feel you were never gonna be happy. As a photographer i work with what I have. I work with how the child/baby allows. Sometimes it doesn't work out sometimes it does. I had plenty of time to do as many outfits as you wanted. You said you would bring one. That was your call. I feel this was completely misconstrued by you I have remained professional and went above and beyond even though over a phone call you personally attacked me verbally attacked and insulted my work. I will mail you a refund of 150. For remainder of session package for 9 month and one year. I hope you find a good fit for you for those sessions.

I need your mailing address for the refund.

As long as you do. It continue to bash my business and myself I will issue the refund. I will be leaving for another country to shoot a wedding. So I will be unreachable until next weekend. I would appreciate an address so when I return I can mail your refund. I would also appreciate if you would simply reply with the address and refrain from another long and extremely insulting message. As I am agreeing to not go forward as your photographer and issuing you a refund for remaining two sessions. However if bashing of myself or my business happens on any social media outlet I will not honor your refund. I am sure you can respect that as I am doing everything I can to end our business together on any positive note.

First I don't think I was verbally abusive in any way. Straight forward. Yes. Second I never asked or demanded a refund just terminated her services. She offered refund which is good on her part but I feel as she is attacking me and telling me I can't leave a review based on my experience with her. Not that I was going to but I feel as I have that right.

Third I didn't sign a release and she has my sons pictures (and his first name) and our family pictures on her facebook business page. I do not want them on there. Do I have an attorney mail her a letter requesting them to be removed as she made it clear not to send her any messages?
I haven;t replied at all not even with my address..
Thank you

astroNikon · Jan 26, 2015

I'm not a pro .. so wait for the great advice.
But I think you did the right thing.

Designer · Jan 26, 2015

Send her your address for the refund.

This is less about photography and more about people skills, which the photographer clearly lacks. Lacking in people skills is hardly anything unusual, and I doubt if she will get any better, so cut your losses and find a different photographer.

Light Guru · Jan 26, 2015

Sounds like both sides had different expectations. This is why a contract is important, so that both sides are in agreement as to what services will be pro formed. It does sound like the photographer has some people skills issues, which can make communication of expectations difficult. When it comes to people photography people skills are perhaps more important then photography skills.

sm4him · Jan 26, 2015

While I could spend DAYS coming up with delightfully sardonic replies to this woman, you would be far better served here to just be short and sweet…well, if not sweet, at least short.

BUT, if it were me, I *would* address the matter of her posting your son's photos for her own promotional use--she holds the copyright, so you can't require her to delete the photos, but I think since this concerns a minor, and there was no contract, that you CAN refuse to allow them to be used in online promotional material. I wouldn't really give a rat's behind that she told you to not reply with anything except your address. It won't be the first time she didn't get what she wanted.

Dear (Photographer's Name):
My address is…..
I shall expect to receive the agreed upon refund of $XX no later than (acceptable date, allowing time for her to mail it after she returns from her trip).
Additionally, as there was no contract and no written agreement for you to use my child's images for your own promotional purposes, please remove all images of my child from your website and social media pages, as well as anywhere else you may be using them.

Thank you,
XX

If you're really feeling snarky, you might add, "Failure to remove images of my son from these sites may result in legal action."

Vtec44 · Jan 26, 2015

I dont know, I wasn't there so I can't judge. This should be handled by those that are involved. If you feel than an attorney is appropriate then it's a good idea to have one.

tirediron · Jan 26, 2015

sm4him said:
While I could spend DAYS coming up with delightfully sardonic replies to this woman, you would be far better served here to just be short and sweet…well, if not sweet, at least short.
BUT, if it were me, I *would* address the matter of her posting your son's photos for her own promotional use--she holds the copyright, so you can't require her to delete the photos, but I think since this concerns a minor, and there was no contract, that you CAN refuse to allow them to be used in online promotional material. I wouldn't really give a rat's behind that she told you to not reply with anything except your address. It won't be the first time she didn't get what she wanted.

Dear (Photographer's Name):
My address is…..
I shall expect to receive the agreed upon refund of $XX no later than (acceptable date, allowing time for her to mail it after she returns from her trip).
Additionally, as there was no contract and no written agreement for you to use my child's images for your own promotional purposes, please remove all images of my child from your website and social media pages, as well as anywhere else you may be using them.

Thank you,
XX

If you're really feeling snarky, you might add, "Failure to remove images of my son from these sites may result in legal action."

I may be mistaken on this, but AFAIK, US law in this area is very similar to Canadian, specifically in that it makes no distinction about age, and therefore, there are no legal grounds to make such a demand based on the fact that there`s a minor involved. Quite honestly, aside from asking politely and hoping that she agrees, I think in this area, you may be out of luck.

sm4him · Jan 26, 2015

tirediron said:
sm4him said:

While I could spend DAYS coming up with delightfully sardonic replies to this woman, you would be far better served here to just be short and sweet…well, if not sweet, at least short.
BUT, if it were me, I *would* address the matter of her posting your son's photos for her own promotional use--she holds the copyright, so you can't require her to delete the photos, but I think since this concerns a minor, and there was no contract, that you CAN refuse to allow them to be used in online promotional material. I wouldn't really give a rat's behind that she told you to not reply with anything except your address. It won't be the first time she didn't get what she wanted.

Dear (Photographer's Name):
My address is…..
I shall expect to receive the agreed upon refund of $XX no later than (acceptable date, allowing time for her to mail it after she returns from her trip).
Additionally, as there was no contract and no written agreement for you to use my child's images for your own promotional purposes, please remove all images of my child from your website and social media pages, as well as anywhere else you may be using them.

Thank you,
XX

If you're really feeling snarky, you might add, "Failure to remove images of my son from these sites may result in legal action."

Click to expand...

I may be mistaken on this, but AFAIK, US law in this area is very similar to Canadian, specifically in that it makes no distinction about age, and therefore, there are no legal grounds to make such a demand based on the fact that there`s a minor involved. Quite honestly, aside from asking politely and hoping that she agrees, I think in this area, you may be out of luck.

I wondered about that. Thanks, John, good to know.

So, perhaps the OP would be best to simply say, "Please remove my son's images from your website and social media sites," but she may just have to recognize that if the photographer opts NOT to do so, there may be little that can be done about it.

Either way, OP, keep anything else even remotely personal out of it at this point, make sure you get her the address, and be done with it. You'll be better off to simply write it off as a lesson learned and not dwell on it anymore than necessary.

And next time, be sure to take your own advice. Always, always get a contract!!

photoguy99 · Jan 26, 2015

Dragging out how long you've been in business as a defense always strikes me as supremely lame. Especially when you chuck in the usual rubbish about "I've never had any complaints from a single one of my billions of customers over the millennia I have been in business" which is basically always a lie.

e.rose · Jan 26, 2015

She's giving you $150 refund for the remainder of the shoot... which means you paid her... what... like $300 for 2 sessions and a disk of all high res images?

You didn't hire a professional.

You hired a shoot and burner.

You get what you pay for.

THAT BEING SAID... What she did was totally not right and totally unprofessional. You weren't wrong to fire her, and you didn't do anything inappropriate, at least the way your side of the story has it sounding.

Just email her with your address, let it go, and hire a REAL photographer, who yes probably charges more, but a) Has quality work b) REAL experience with children c) Is professional and has people skills.

NOW.

I wanna see this chick's work.

I have a feeling I already know what it's going to look like, but every time I hear stories like these I always am curious to see the portfolio of said photographer.

If you don't feel like posting it publicly... feel free to PM it to me. :allteeth:

SquarePeg · Jan 26, 2015

chanting: pics! pics! pics! pics!

Designer · Jan 26, 2015

Yes, please link us to her Facebook page.

tirediron · Jan 26, 2015

Just a friendly Moderator's warning... given the situation, and lacking any documentation to the contrary, I doubt the OP has the right to post the images. A link to a website however....

Red1012 · Jan 26, 2015

Thank you everyone for the responses. I feel better with my e-mail and with my gut that I did not verbally abuse her in any way. I will send her my address with the correct refund amount and to ask her politely to remove the pictures from her business page. I have no problem uploading a few pictures of my son if there is a way to go back and take them down eventually.

In my area (rural Iowa) I researched and she was in the middle for what people were charging so I thought it was ok. I paid 750 for my wedding pictures in which I loved! So I believed it was a decent price. Lesson learned.