"If they pay me more"...

[Christie Photo]

The couple selected the scene, so the photog has to shoot it...

Really?

A Pro... doesn't allow himself/herself to be manipulated into producing an inferior product.

True!

SO many times, I've heard, "You're the professional. Tell us what to do." And then get an argument.

I know it's hard at times, especially in today's market. Each of us must decide what we're willing to do and where the line is. There have been times I rescheduled sittings due to bad clothing choices. There have been a few (very few) occasions when I refused a session because I wasn't willing to produce certain images (i.e. tots in sexy poses). Personally, I'm OK with losing those jobs.

BUT... back to the original concern. I know I'll be doing basic processing of every image... crops, color balance, etc. AND... I will do further work (within reason) at my own discretion. If EXTENSIVE work is requested by a client, I decide (on an ad hoc basis) if it's due to something I should have done when shooting... something I should have controlled. I don't feel I should ask additional payment if I fall short of what I promised.

-Pete

 

[mrca]

Why didnt he use shallow dof to eliminate distractions. Combine that with longer lens with narrower angle of view. Sounds like a gwc, guy with a camera, who doesnt have a clue. A pro can get the shot and isnt a blind squirrel hoping to find an acorn.

 

[ORourkeK]

It is interesting that people are assuming this person I was speaking of is a man. I think most everyone here is in agreement...

1. It is up to the photographer to educate the subjects
2. A pro photog will not need to spend a lot of time editing due to properly educating
3. Never give in to a client even if it means the world to them and it is at a spot where they have dreamed of having a picture taken of them their whole life

I think that about sums it up, eh? Ok, number three was half joking, but it is seriously how some of you are making it sound. If you have the opportunity to provide your client with a shot that they have been dreaming of, but are limited due to your skill in photoshop, you are OK with that? In the first scenario I described in this thread, it would have taken minimal effort to clone/path out a few people, a plane in the open sky, and a couple things in the water. You are telling me you would have looked at the scene and said, "gee, too much post-processing, time to educate the clients"??? Again, I am not saying do the entire photoshoot here, it is one shot.

 

[ORourkeK]

Why didnt he use shallow dof to eliminate distractions. Combine that with longer lens with narrower angle of view. Sounds like a gwc, guy with a camera, who doesnt have a clue. A pro can get the shot and isnt a blind squirrel hoping to find an acorn.

Shallow depth of field wouldn't have kept our eyes away from all of the distractions in this one. And I think they intentionally kept everything in focus. This is a bit of an unfair post from me considering I am unable to provide the picture I am speaking of. I agree about the "doesn't have a clue" part though! The entire group felt cult-like. It was a bit scary.

 

[ORourkeK]

A Pro at anything doesn't allow himself/herself to be manipulated into producing an inferior product. As others have said this is where the "7 P's" come in. Over the years there were many times when I had to redirect a customer. Generally after hearing the reasons why and on being presented with alternatives, they were agreeable. If they weren't it was better to know up front and walk away.

In this example, the product is only inferior because the photographer refused to remove a few things in post. I do understand what you are saying though. Side note, when you and Sharon pop up in a thread together, I know I am in for it In a good way, of course!

 

[ORourkeK]

if that means changing your vantage point for a background/scenery they want from a perspective that works.

I like this. I do think everyone here is correct when assuming this person could have set up the shot better. I think if I were to restart this thread I would have worded things differently. Perhaps my question this time around would be "Do you allow yourself to take a picture where you know you will have to remove a few items in post?" and then I would have followed it up with "Would you then charge more for the additional editing?".

 

[Christie Photo]

If you have the opportunity to provide your client with a shot that they have been dreaming of, but are limited due to your skill in photoshop, you are OK with that?

Well...

If the job requires greater skills than I possess, I shouldn't be taking on that job. Photoshop is just one tool. Maybe careful planning is what is needed.

-Pete

 

[ORourkeK]

If you have the opportunity to provide your client with a shot that they have been dreaming of, but are limited due to your skill in photoshop, you are OK with that?

Well...

If the job requires greater skills than I possess, I shouldn't be taking on that job. Photoshop is just one tool. Maybe careful planning is what is needed.

-Pete

In most scenarios, you won't know what a spot entails until you are on site, no? Are you saying you go out and visit a location before accepting a job? Strictly speaking of portraits here.

 

[Christie Photo]

Are you saying you go out and visit a location before accepting a job? Strictly speaking of portraits here.

Absolutely! Doesn't everyone?

Why wouldn't you?

-Pete

 

[ORourkeK]

Are you saying you go out and visit a location before accepting a job? Strictly speaking of portraits here.

Absolutely! Doesn't everyone?

Why wouldn't you?

-Pete

Interesting. Looking forward to seeing what others say about that. If we continue with just portraits, if you have 5 jobs in one week that are all a couple hours apart, you are traveling to each of these locations before you even take the job? Perhaps this depends on lead time, but I just can't imagine that being true. And if we expand past portraits and start talking about weddings/events, your location may be across the country, or in an entirely different country. Would you still go to the location before accepting the job? This is definitely on the extreme, but I am just trying to think about what happens if you apply this procedure across the board.

 

[Christie Photo]

If we continue with just portraits, if you have 5 jobs in one week that are all a couple hours apart, you are traveling to each of these locations before you even take the job?

The times that I've had five portraits on location to shoot in the same week would have been high school senior portraits. I shoot only in MY locations for this level of service to assure proper lighting.

I've never been lucky enough to book 5 family portraits in one week. BUT IF I DID, I would certainly stop in and take a look before the session date. Same with commercial shoots.

My service area for portraits has been within (but not limited to) a 30 minute drive from my studio.

-Pete

 

[ORourkeK]

Stopping in to look at the location before the session date is different from not accepting the job until you see the location. I am impressed that you have been successful with such a limitation placed on yourself. I can't imagine limiting my distance when there are beautiful mountains 1-2 hour(s) in one direction, and oceans 1-2 hour(s) in the other. I like your idea for the senior portraits though. Being extremely familiar with a location must be comforting.

 

[Fujidave]

I am on a FB group and someone posted a series they did for an engagement shoot. One of the pictures was of the couple in the center of a footbridge, and the photographer was off of the bride on the right side taking the shot. There were plants, trees, people, airplanes, boats, etc. all around the image. It was incredibly distracting. Before I even read the comments I was thinking about all of the things I would crop out to make it look better. Well, someone did comment all of their suggestions advising what they would remove or crop out. The person's response was really surprising to me. They said something along the lines of, "Well, if they want to pay me more to edit all of that out I will". Is this the normal thought process? Am I the crazy person? To me, the products I hand to the customer are my product. I will take the few extra minutes needed in certain photos to make sure it looks as best it can. Literally, a five-minute touch up would have improved the photo greatly. As is, if they didn't include other photos from the same set, I wouldn't have known right away that the people on the bridge were their subject. Thoughts?

IMO I think the person is totally out of order, plus I think he will NOT make it as a photographer at all with a horrible and crappy way of thinking. When I take my vocalists images if I can`t crop out the messy bits, then I take them out in PP.

 

[smoke665]

In this example, the product is only inferior because the photographer refused to remove a few things in post

The product was inferior because the photographer was inferior, end of discussion. A professional person would have suggested alternatives, used thier skills to minimize the issue, allowed edit time to correct or refused the job.

As to pre-planning. If you hire a painter to paint your house would you expect them to first look the house. If you hired a mechanic to fix your car wouldn't they need to look at it first. The list goes on and on so why do you find it odd that a professional photographer would want to look at a location first, unless they already have experience with the location. Pros make it go smooth because they already know what they're doing when they walk on the job.

 

[Derrel]

He said/she said situations...never is there a clear-cut disposition of such disagreements when the "facts" are mere speculations...