"If they pay me more"...

Discussion in 'General Shop Talk' started by ORourkeK, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. ClickAddict

    ClickAddict No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Any business that does not have a profit margin that can handle typical unforeseen issues (And extra edits is certainly within probable issues) is not pricing well.
    Stores price based on typical theft
    Product sales price based on potential returns /defects
    Photographers should price based on potential edits. / damaged equipment over the years.....
    If you cant make a bid that leaves profit and room for extra edits you will not succeed as a business (Well you can afford to it from time to time if there is also a chance to get into certain markets and generate more profitable business but those should be the exception, not the rule) If after all your expenses (including value for your time) you end up spending more than your bid will bring you in, then you are not running a Professional photography business, you are enjoying (hopefully) a fun hobby (And nothing wrong with that.)
    If fighting for the lowest bid makes it non profitable, that job is simply not for you. (Everyone has a budget for their photography and every business has a target market. Neither one encompasses everybody)


     
  2. ClickAddict

    ClickAddict No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Bugatti makes an amazing car. I know it's worth the extra $$. My budget is for something "a bit" less. They are certainly not lowering their price to compete against the cars I typically buy. They are also not making a cheap car (less edited photo) to try and stay within my budget cause it would ruin their image.
    Photography is no different. If you put out crappier photos than you usually can produce in order to save time and fall to a lower price range, good luck in trying to win the customers that are willing to pay more after they've seen those results.
     
  3. smoke665

    smoke665 TPF Supporters Supporting Member

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    The extra edit time I was speaking of was that caused by not paying attention that could be minimized or eliminated from the shot before you click the shutter. Every business has certain costs associated with the service/product they provide. They don't include time to recover from errors that shouldn't have occurred in the first place.
     
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  4. ORourkeK

    ORourkeK No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Not if we are running with the idea that, as the pro photographer, we aren't allowing ourselves to take 100 images where 5 minutes worth of work needs to be done. This is with the understanding that "the customers insisted" for an image or two.
     
  5. smoke665

    smoke665 TPF Supporters Supporting Member

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    A Pro at anything doesn't allow himself/herself to be manipulated into producing an inferior product. As others have said this is where the "7 P's" come in. Over the years there were many times when I had to redirect a customer. Generally after hearing the reasons why and on being presented with alternatives, they were agreeable. If they weren't it was better to know up front and walk away.
     
  6. vintagesnaps

    vintagesnaps Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    I found that too, doing work that wasn't photography related, that it's part of the job to suggest other options. Maybe what a family has in mind is fine, but there may be options they didn't even know about.

    I think it's a matter of taking charge and figuring out how to get the photos the client wants in a way that works, if that means changing your vantage point for a background/scenery they want from a perspective that works.

    Get on American Society of Media Photographers - Homepage and look for the 'paperwork share' where working pros share actual jobs/contacts they had. They charge for time 'processing' because obviously you have to at least get the photos off the roll of film or media card and look at the them! But to plan to have to depend on having to edit every single photo you took seems to indicate a need to bring up the skill level; seems better to edit as needed. To me it's like writing, if you have to rewrite every single sentence you write then you probably need to work on your writing skills or you're never going to get done and get anything actually written.
     
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  7. Christie Photo

    Christie Photo No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Really?

    True!

    SO many times, I've heard, "You're the professional. Tell us what to do." And then get an argument.

    I know it's hard at times, especially in today's market. Each of us must decide what we're willing to do and where the line is. There have been times I rescheduled sittings due to bad clothing choices. There have been a few (very few) occasions when I refused a session because I wasn't willing to produce certain images (i.e. tots in sexy poses). Personally, I'm OK with losing those jobs.

    BUT... back to the original concern. I know I'll be doing basic processing of every image... crops, color balance, etc. AND... I will do further work (within reason) at my own discretion. If EXTENSIVE work is requested by a client, I decide (on an ad hoc basis) if it's due to something I should have done when shooting... something I should have controlled. I don't feel I should ask additional payment if I fall short of what I promised.

    -Pete
     
  8. mrca

    mrca No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Why didnt he use shallow dof to eliminate distractions. Combine that with longer lens with narrower angle of view. Sounds like a gwc, guy with a camera, who doesnt have a clue. A pro can get the shot and isnt a blind squirrel hoping to find an acorn.
     
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  9. ORourkeK

    ORourkeK No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    It is interesting that people are assuming this person I was speaking of is a man. I think most everyone here is in agreement...

    1. It is up to the photographer to educate the subjects
    2. A pro photog will not need to spend a lot of time editing due to properly educating
    3. Never give in to a client even if it means the world to them and it is at a spot where they have dreamed of having a picture taken of them their whole life

    I think that about sums it up, eh? Ok, number three was half joking, but it is seriously how some of you are making it sound. If you have the opportunity to provide your client with a shot that they have been dreaming of, but are limited due to your skill in photoshop, you are OK with that? In the first scenario I described in this thread, it would have taken minimal effort to clone/path out a few people, a plane in the open sky, and a couple things in the water. You are telling me you would have looked at the scene and said, "gee, too much post-processing, time to educate the clients"??? Again, I am not saying do the entire photoshoot here, it is one shot.
     
  10. ORourkeK

    ORourkeK No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Shallow depth of field wouldn't have kept our eyes away from all of the distractions in this one. And I think they intentionally kept everything in focus. This is a bit of an unfair post from me considering I am unable to provide the picture I am speaking of. I agree about the "doesn't have a clue" part though! The entire group felt cult-like. It was a bit scary.
     
  11. ORourkeK

    ORourkeK No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    In this example, the product is only inferior because the photographer refused to remove a few things in post. I do understand what you are saying though. Side note, when you and Sharon pop up in a thread together, I know I am in for it :lol: In a good way, of course!
     
  12. ORourkeK

    ORourkeK No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    I like this. I do think everyone here is correct when assuming this person could have set up the shot better. I think if I were to restart this thread I would have worded things differently. Perhaps my question this time around would be "Do you allow yourself to take a picture where you know you will have to remove a few items in post?" and then I would have followed it up with "Would you then charge more for the additional editing?".
     

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