Is TPF 'the Internet'?

[KimbleKow]

I googled "photography forums" just so I could find camaraderie and other people interested in interacting with me.

What I am getting right now is that if I have a problem with a setting or whatever on my camera, that problem is MINE and MINE ALONE!

To be completely honest, this thread has made me very reluctant to ask any questions at all here.

So I'll keep my problems to myself. No-one will have the trials and tribulations of having to help some dumbass noob.

 

[Overread]

Answering every question, without expecting the new person to do some work, is actually detrimental as it keeps them from actually developing the skills to proceed themselves on anything.( ...............) we should be teaching people how to grow rather than hand-feeding them every morsel and keeping them infants

Learner independence is the name of the game, always.

Most people need to get a grounding in a subject before they can self learn it. That's why you have lecturers at uni and not just a book list with an exam at the end of the year. IT's the same reason clubs and local communities have learning events like Beginners Classes and its the very same reason we have a beginners section here.

People need to start somewhere and most need some guidance; direction etc.. from real people. Heck they need to learn what resources are good and bad to read (or would you all like people to self learn from Ken Rockwell and worse websites?).

Most people I see furthering and becoming better photographers on the forums are often those who DID have their basic questions answered. With those basics covered they were vastly more able and more receptive to being encouraged to further their reading and understanding. Those who were met with scorn, insult, ridicule or the good old "go google it" left. What became of them I've no idea, but they left our community. They were given no chance, no starting point, no welcoming grounding. They were hazed out simply because some people feel that they must bully others into learning and that doesn't work.

 

[KimbleKow]

People are social creatures, some people just like to talk to another person (either directly or remotely through the site). The whole point of forums is to allow this communication and we've set aside space on the site for it to take place within. For whatever reason they wish to ask a question they are allowed to do so.

ALLOWED to ask questions is one thing. ENCOURAGED to ask questions is something else entirely. I do not see thephotoforum as being encouraging to new members.

I guess I'll move on. I really don't feel very welcome here. Y'all have a great day.

 

[limr]

I googled "photography forums" just so I could find camaraderie and other people interested in interacting with me.

What I am getting right now is that if I have a problem with a setting or whatever on my camera, that problem is MINE and MINE ALONE!

To be completely honest, this thread has made me very reluctant to ask any questions at all here.

So I'll keep my problems to myself. No-one will have the trials and tribulations of having to help some dumbass noob.

I can understand why you may feel that way only by reading this one thread, but in a way, it seems as unfair to judge us by one thread as it is to judge a newcomer by one question. Many have stated here that they are more than willing to either help outright or give someone the benefit of the doubt. I suppose it can work both ways, yes? We give each other chances.

 

[peter27]

Answering every question, without expecting the new person to do some work, is actually detrimental as it keeps them from actually developing the skills to proceed themselves on anything.( ...............) we should be teaching people how to grow rather than hand-feeding them every morsel and keeping them infants

Learner independence is the name of the game, always.

Most people need to get a grounding in a subject before they can self learn it. That's why you have lecturers at uni and not just a book list with an exam at the end of the year. IT's the same reason clubs and local communities have learning events like Beginners Classes and its the very same reason we have a beginners section here.

People need to start somewhere and most need some guidance; direction etc.. from real people. Heck they need to learn what resources are good and bad to read (or would you all like people to self learn from Ken Rockwell and worse websites?).

Most people I see furthering and becoming better photographers on the forums are often those who DID have their basic questions answered. With those basics covered they were vastly more able and more receptive to being encouraged to further their reading and understanding. Those who were met with scorn, insult, ridicule or the good old "go google it" left. What became of them I've no idea, but they left our community. They were given no chance, no starting point, no welcoming grounding. They were hazed out simply because some people feel that they must bully others into learning and that doesn't work.

Indeed, and I absolutely agree that beginners should join a class or club if they can. Otherwise, they need to invest a little time reading and a lot of time practicing. But these are not the people that my comments are directed at, nor that the original post is referring to, I think. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, seeking help when you are prepared to put in the donkey work is one thing, trying to get a free ride is another.

Also, encouraging learner independence is not in any way the same as expecting people to become autodidactic, which is actually the reason you have a book list at uni: it's up to you to decide what and how much you read from the list, or if you do some extra reading on your own initiative. No tutor is going to wet nurse you, but if you put in the graft, they'll be there to help, encourage and guide you. That was my experience, anyway.

 

[astroNikon]

People are social creatures, some people just like to talk to another person (either directly or remotely through the site). The whole point of forums is to allow this communication and we've set aside space on the site for it to take place within. For whatever reason they wish to ask a question they are allowed to do so.

ALLOWED to ask questions is one thing. ENCOURAGED to ask questions is something else entirely. I do not see thephotoforum as being encouraging to new members.

I guess I'll move on. I really don't feel very welcome here. Y'all have a great day.

It's not so bad. It's just some questions ... they keep thinking of those questions and posters and burns them up inside.


I try to help newbies (I stil consider myself a newbie) because many times what is lost in communicaitons is the complexity of the answer.
Sometimes I over simplify it for other reads but good for the person asking.
knowledge is hard to gain on complex subjects. And truthfully, photography is kinda complex when you don't know any other than AUTO.

 

[limr]

People are social creatures, some people just like to talk to another person (either directly or remotely through the site). The whole point of forums is to allow this communication and we've set aside space on the site for it to take place within. For whatever reason they wish to ask a question they are allowed to do so.

ALLOWED to ask questions is one thing. ENCOURAGED to ask questions is something else entirely. I do not see thephotoforum as being encouraging to new members.

I guess I'll move on. I really don't feel very welcome here. Y'all have a great day.

It's not so bad. It's just some questions ... they keep thinking of those questions and posters and burns them up inside.

That's a fair point - no one has given specific or actual examples of the questions we are referring to, so it can seem that we're picking on anyone who asks any question at all, and that's just not true.

 

[hamlet]

The new rules for beginners are the following:

Step 1: no more question
Step 2: you will be dropped into the Amazon forests with nothing but a pair of clean underpants and a stick
Step 3: if you have learned photography you may return to civilization, otherwise go back to step 1.

That should do.

 

[KimbleKow]

The new rules for beginners are the following:

Step 1: no more question
Step 2: you will be dropped into the Amazon forests with nothing but a pair of clean underpants and a stick
Step 3: if you have learned photography you may return to civilization, otherwise go back to step 1.

That should do.

You hit the nail on the head.
That's EXACTLY the way I feel now.
That's why I am moving on.

I will not bother anyone on here again.

 

[runnah]

ALLOWED to ask questions is one thing. ENCOURAGED to ask questions is something else entirely. I do not see thephotoforum as being encouraging to new members.

I guess I'll move on. I really don't feel very welcome here. Y'all have a great day.

So you joined just to comment on this thread and that's it? Maybe if you actually posted a question you could have a something to base your claims on. Right now you seem like a troll account setup by someone trying to prove their point.

Perhaps maybe a certain rodent...

 

[hamlet]

The new rules for beginners are the following:

Step 1: no more question
Step 2: you will be dropped into the Amazon forests with nothing but a pair of clean underpants and a stick
Step 3: if you have learned photography you may return to civilization, otherwise go back to step 1.

That should do.

You hit the nail on the head.
That's EXACTLY the way I feel now.
That's why I am moving on.

I will not bother anyone on here again.

That's a shame. Try asking a question and see how it goes.

 

[KimbleKow]

ALLOWED to ask questions is one thing. ENCOURAGED to ask questions is something else entirely. I do not see thephotoforum as being encouraging to new members.

I guess I'll move on. I really don't feel very welcome here. Y'all have a great day.

So you joined just to comment on this thread and that's it? Maybe if you actually posted a question you could have a something to base your claims on. Right now you seem like a troll account setup by someone trying to prove their point.

Perhaps maybe a certain rodent...

There is always a moron that thinks THEY are the only opinion that counts. Instead of actually reading the posts in this forum and trying to put your self in MY place, you make accusations that are insulting.

Try looking in a mirror and asking yourself just what positive attributes you bring to this forum.

I suspect that you don't have the courage to admit that you bring very little.

It's people like you that helped to make up my mind.

Now I'm done.

 

[astroNikon]

ALLOWED to ask questions is one thing. ENCOURAGED to ask questions is something else entirely. I do not see thephotoforum as being encouraging to new members.

I guess I'll move on. I really don't feel very welcome here. Y'all have a great day.

So you joined just to comment on this thread and that's it? Maybe if you actually posted a question you could have a something to base your claims on. Right now you seem like a troll account setup by someone trying to prove their point.

Perhaps maybe a certain rodent...

He did say his name was Pete from North Carolina in his first post

 

[runnah]

ALLOWED to ask questions is one thing. ENCOURAGED to ask questions is something else entirely. I do not see thephotoforum as being encouraging to new members.

I guess I'll move on. I really don't feel very welcome here. Y'all have a great day.

So you joined just to comment on this thread and that's it? Maybe if you actually posted a question you could have a something to base your claims on. Right now you seem like a troll account setup by someone trying to prove their point.

Perhaps maybe a certain rodent...

There is always a moron that thinks THEY are the only opinion that counts. Instead of actually reading the posts in this forum and trying to put your self in MY place, you make accusations that are insulting.

Try looking in a mirror and asking yourself just what positive attributes you bring to this forum.

I suspect that you don't have the courage to admit that you bring very little.

It's people like you that helped to make up my mind.

Now I'm done.

Whatever Hamlet.

 

[Derrel]

Well, we've pretty much beaten The_OP into temporary submission, I think...I can detect a faint pulse, though, so he's not dead yet by a long shot...the OP is one tough S.O.B. though, and has endured much tougher battles than this little skirmish!!!

Just as an aside, one thing we have not brought up, at all, is the example of "lurkers". I think most of us here, as "TPF junkie", and as "I spend too much of my life on TPF!" rank members, tend to forget the concept of the so-called lurkers, or as TPF calls them, "guests". The people who are not registered members, but who nevertheless come here and read the posts.

Lurkers or guests are "using the internet", and are here in HUGE numbers, far,far outnumbering registered,logged-in TPF members. TPF threads on many topics turn up well-placed in search engine results, and as such, TPF posts and the discussions that ensue often become on-line resource materials.

Right now, there are 5 members and 7 guests reading this very thread. I think maybe we need to consider not only how we deal with "our family" members, but also how we appear to "our guests". If rude behavior and "RTFM,noob!" are the standards we should aspire to, I don't want to be a part of that kind of a forum. We need to strive to create a place where we can convert "lurkers" and "guests" into actual,registered, participating members.