Just had an inquiry about shoot for a baby's bday, including kids

[hfocal]

Hi don't mean to crowd this section but as I'm looking to go pro, this might be my home for a while lol. The inquiry came from a previous volunteer shoot I did. Now I'm being asked the "what's your price" question.

I've just prepared something to respond with on the lines that include my hands-on experience shooting kids/babies which is really not a lot - except for online courses at CreativeLive - and that I can charge on the low side, xxx, for 20 edited images, and other details. If they're ok with price, I'll probably do it. And cause well babies are babies. They are cute and precious and grow way way fast! Of course they need breaks, need attention, need being fed, have allergies, illnesses, tantrums, etc. Only hesitating cause I don’t have liability insurance, can't afford it yet. I also have no personal connections with the inquirer either so it really makes it tough a decision. The shoot is in a month. Is it workable anyway without insurance or just let it go?

 

[Designer]

Is it workable anyway without insurance or just let it go?

Can you afford to be sued? Talk to your insurance agent. He might be able to work out a one-event coverage policy. Lots of beginner pros are without any liability insurance, but that doesn't mean all should.

 

[KmH]

There is no location information in your profile.
Are you in the USA?

Since you don't have liability insurance I was wondering if do you have a legal, registered business prepared to collect and forward sales taxes and such to the appropriate local and/or state department(s)?

 

[hfocal]

I'm in BC, Canada . Doing a google search for a one-event insurance policy as we speak. Referrals welcome .

Currently, a family with accounting background helps me with business registration but think I'll need to do it myself cause they don't seem to really be interested being a part of my business. Now wondering too, would insurers need one's business.. registered first ?

Also, working out how I'll change my XXX pricing based on what insurance I'll have to pay if I find any.

 

[hfocal]

And also searching for a Contract and Release template for this type of shoot. Appreciate your help in advance

 

[tirediron]

I think you've got a case of 'cartbeforethehorseitis'. You're not likely to get all of your business ducks in a row in time for this shoot, so rather than trying to do that, having a million things on your mind, and mucking up something at the shoot, do it pro bono. Tell them that you're in the process of getting things set up, but you're not there quite yet, and because of that, you will do it free of charge, but if they're happy with the results, they can buy you a fancy meal or something. While it's by no means fool-proof, as an amateur, you're in a much better position in the unlikely event that something does go wrong, with respect to liability, and in fact your homeowner's policy may even cover you.

Getting a business set up in BC is not terribly complicated. Expect the whole process to take 2-3 evenings and cost around $100 for the various filing fees, etc. It's all done on-line through the provincial government's website.

 

[Designer]

Currently, a family with accounting background helps me with business registration but think I'll need to do it myself cause they don't seem to really be interested being a part of my business. Now wondering too, would insurers need one's business.. registered first ?

In our state there are people sitting by the telephone waiting to help people get their Federal and State tax ID all set up, and it's free. As to insurance, you'll just have to call around.

And also searching for a Contract and Release template for this type of shoot. Appreciate your help in advance

While you can find examples online, they might not be an ideal choice. They could have been written by someone not familiar with Canadian Law, they might be written to favor the client over the contractor, they might be full of errors and omissions.

 

[hfocal]

Oh no, messing up something at shoot is not what I plan to do. I have my Photography Workflows put together as well (PDFs), just the liability part is what I'm worried about cause I don't know these people. Have they screwed someone else before in court? It's just me trying to put together preventative measures I guess.

 

[table1349]

Oh no, messing up something at shoot is not what I plan to do. I have my Photography Workflows put together as well (PDFs), just the liability part is what I'm worried about cause I don't know these people. Have they screwed someone else before in court? It's just me trying to put together preventative measures I guess.

No one plans to mess up. This guy certainly didn't, but you know the old saying, $#!& happens.
Pregnant Woman Struck by Train Was an Aspiring Model

And with babies and kids $#!& happens All the D@^* time.

 

[loonatic45414]

I would see what the law says about getting a surety bond. Cheaper, easier to get.

Basic difference is a bond pays out & you have to reimburse the bond. Insurance takes your money, if they pay out, they generally don't charge you for what was paid out, but you pay regular premiums. You're betting against yourself, basically. If you take little, sporadic jobs, the bond is the way to go.

I don't know about how long it takes where you live, but I was set up with everything I needed in one afternoon and it didn't cost a lot.

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[table1349]

I would see what the law says about getting a surety bond. Cheaper, easier to get.

Basic difference is a bond pays out & you have to reimburse the bond. Insurance takes your money, if they pay out, they generally don't charge you for what was paid out, but you pay regular premiums. You're betting against yourself, basically. If you take little, sporadic jobs, the bond is the way to go.

I don't know about how long it takes where you live, but I was set up with everything I needed in one afternoon and it didn't cost a lot.

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Yep good idea if you have a million or two in the bank to back the bond, otherwise its a fools risk. Anyone doing professional photography is an idiot if they do not carry insurance. Simple Fact.

 

[loonatic45414]

Yep good idea if you have a million or two in the bank to back the bond, otherwise its a fools risk. Anyone doing professional photography is an idiot if they do not carry insurance. Simple Fact.

"Simple fact" is not substantive enough. Please include examples/references to back up your claim and support your theory. It would greatly benefit us all.

Otherwise it's just chiming in, which you seem to do a lot of.

 

[table1349]

Yep good idea if you have a million or two in the bank to back the bond, otherwise its a fools risk. Anyone doing professional photography is an idiot if they do not carry insurance. Simple Fact.

"Simple fact" is not substantive enough. Please include examples/references to back up your claim and support your theory. It would greatly benefit us all.

Otherwise it's just chiming in, which you seem to do a lot of.

Did you have the cash on hand to reimburse the bond that you got? If so why did you waste the money on the bonding agent? They usually want 10% for the service.

If not, you were writing checks your @$$ couldn't cover with the bonding agent.

How Do Surety Bonds Work?
To put it simply, they guarantee that specific tasks are fulfilled. This is achieved by bringing three parties together in a mutual, legally binding contract.

1. The principal is the individual or business that purchases the bond to guarantee future work performance.
2. The obligee is the entity that requires the bond. Obligees are typically government agencies working to regulate industries and reduce the likelihood of financial loss.
3. The surety is the insurance company that backs the bond. The surety provides a line of credit in case the principal fails to fulfill the task.

The obligee can make a claim to recover losses if the principal does fail to fulfill the task. If the claim is valid, the insurance company will pay reparation that cannot exceed the bond amount. The underwriters will then expect the principal to reimburse them for any claims paid.
What is a Surety Bond? - SuretyBonds.com

Simple common sense, anyone in any type of business that does not carry insurance on the business including liability insurance is an idiot. If it is a one time or short term thing (usually 10 days or less) then Special Event insurance is the way to go.

 

[loonatic45414]

I'm not saying it's for everyone. But if you do small gigs, definitely have a good contract that limits your liability and protects your work.

Yes, you do reimburse a bonding agent. That's just another way of saying "you broke it, you pay for it."

With an insurance company, you pay for it either way, plus you're paying their profit, their business expenses, and their liability, etc, every month. You usually pay the same premium whether you do 1 job or 30 jobs a month.

A bond can take an unprofitable situation and make it profitable, especially for small jobs.

Special event insurance is great if you're doing a wedding or something with large potential profit. A child's birthday party would hardly be profitable.

Different localities require differing amounts, and in my experience, a bond is basically extended as a line of credit. It's just a way of ensuring you can pay for something you broke, nothing more.

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[table1349]

I'm not saying it's for everyone. But if you do small gigs, definitely have a good contract that limits your liability and protects your work.

Yes, you do reimburse a bonding agent. That's just another way of saying "you broke it, you pay for it."

With an insurance company, you pay for it either way, plus you're paying their profit, their business expenses, and their liability, etc, every month. You usually pay the same premium whether you do 1 job or 30 jobs a month.

A bond can take an unprofitable situation and make it profitable, especially for small jobs.

Special event insurance is great if you're doing a wedding or something with large potential profit. A child's birthday party would hardly be profitable.

Different localities require differing amounts, and in my experience, a bond is basically extended as a line of credit. It's just a way of ensuring you can pay for something you broke, nothing more.

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So what is the cost of paying for a, oh I don't know, a broke kid. $10,000.00, $100,000.00, $1,000,000.00?

Tell me, do you get a bond every time you drive a car, do you carry auto insurance, or are you one of those ...that don't bother with insurance on their vehicle with the Hell with it if an accident happens attitude?