Losing business to amateurs

[West -]

$15K for a university is chump change, I'm pretty sure there is a story behind this story, as most if not all respected companies or businesses always deal with a pro regardless of the job involved.

Nobody with a responsibility to others will take a chance on a fly-by-night (anything) and put their personal reputation on the line and the possibility of getting fired themselves for incompetence if things don't work out.

Believe me, I don't know of any pro photographer that is worried about loosing their job to an amateur in the big leagues. Think about the 10/90 rule.

 

[vintagesnaps]

I found it rather surprising too with a university because of my background and some knowledge of local sports and NCAA regs. (which may not apply if not in the states). If anything in my experience teams and arenas have gotten more strict and it's filtering down to high school level (but varies by sport, division, etc.).

I'd expect they'd hire/contact with a pro to better keep things under their control because it doesn't take much sometimes to compromise eligibility. (I'm thinking if an amateur/volunteer inadvertently did something not within guidelines the school might be limited in what they could do about it.) This arrangement seems rather 'loose' but it may be different than it seems.

The university near me laid off a photographer who worked for them but he got hired back once the next year's budget went thru. Varies depending on where you live, schools are funded but on budgets.

I wouldn't be surprised if going in this direction with it backfires on the school in some way but for the friend I guess it's a matter of this ending and finding another opportunity.

 

[MSnowy]

I don't feel bad for 'pros' that lose business to 'amateurs'...

If your work isn't noticeably better than a so called amateur, then you deserve to lose the business.

Simple as that.....



Maybe?

Look at all the newspapers that are letting pro-photographers go and are excepting pictures from anyone that is willing to give them pictures for free. Has nothing to do with talent has everything to do with bottom line.

 

[sscarmack]

I don't feel bad for 'pros' that lose business to 'amateurs'...

If your work isn't noticeably better than a so called amateur, then you deserve to lose the business.

Simple as that.....



Maybe?

Look at all the newspapers that are letting pro-photographers go and are excepting pictures from anyone that is willing to give them pictures for free. Has nothing to do with talent has everything to do with bottom line.

Thats not the amateurs fault, thats the newspapers fault for accepting 'shotty' work.

 

[MSnowy]

I don't feel bad for 'pros' that lose business to 'amateurs'...

If your work isn't noticeably better than a so called amateur, then you deserve to lose the business.

Simple as that.....



Maybe?

Look at all the newspapers that are letting pro-photographers go and are excepting pictures from anyone that is willing to give them pictures for free. Has nothing to do with talent has everything to do with bottom line.

Thats not the amateurs fault, thats the newspapers fault for accepting 'shotty' work.

Of course it is the amateurs fault. amateurs should realize their getting used by the newspapers. How many of these amateurs would deliver these papers for free

 

[sscarmack]

I don't feel bad for 'pros' that lose business to 'amateurs'...

If your work isn't noticeably better than a so called amateur, then you deserve to lose the business.

Simple as that.....



Maybe?

Look at all the newspapers that are letting pro-photographers go and are excepting pictures from anyone that is willing to give them pictures for free. Has nothing to do with talent has everything to do with bottom line.

Thats not the amateurs fault, thats the newspapers fault for accepting 'shotty' work.

Of course it is the amateurs fault. amateurs should realize their getting used by the newspapers. How many of these amateurs would deliver these papers for free

Thats your opinion. And probably the opinion of many so called "pros"...

But lets face the facts, when you start out doing photography, you do everything you can to get your foot in the door, and nowadays there are a lot more people who are so called 'photographers', so its a dime a dozen.

If the newspapers are accepting amateur work, then there must be no different in their opinion compared to pro work when they can get it for free.

Do I support pros being fired? Heck no, but its not the amateurs fault. We've all been in those shoes.

 

[MSnowy]

I don't feel bad for 'pros' that lose business to 'amateurs'...

If your work isn't noticeably better than a so called amateur, then you deserve to lose the business.

Simple as that.....



Maybe?

Look at all the newspapers that are letting pro-photographers go and are excepting pictures from anyone that is willing to give them pictures for free. Has nothing to do with talent has everything to do with bottom line.

Thats not the amateurs fault, thats the newspapers fault for accepting 'shotty' work.

Of course it is the amateurs fault. amateurs should realize their getting used by the newspapers. How many of these amateurs would deliver these papers for free

Thats your opinion. And probably the opinion of many so called "pros"...

But lets face the facts, when you start out doing photography, you do everything you can to get your foot in the door, and nowadays there are a lot more people who are so called 'photographers', so its a dime a dozen.

If the newspapers are accepting amateur work, then there must be no different in their opinion compared to pro work when they can get it for free.

Do I support pros being fired? Heck no, but its not the amateurs fault. We've all been in those shoes.

I agree that some amateurs work is much better then staff photographers. But pros and amateurs giving things away for free devalues their work and everyone else's

 

[sscarmack]

I don't feel bad for 'pros' that lose business to 'amateurs'...

If your work isn't noticeably better than a so called amateur, then you deserve to lose the business.

Simple as that.....



Maybe?

Look at all the newspapers that are letting pro-photographers go and are excepting pictures from anyone that is willing to give them pictures for free. Has nothing to do with talent has everything to do with bottom line.

Thats not the amateurs fault, thats the newspapers fault for accepting 'shotty' work.

Of course it is the amateurs fault. amateurs should realize their getting used by the newspapers. How many of these amateurs would deliver these papers for free

Thats your opinion. And probably the opinion of many so called "pros"...

But lets face the facts, when you start out doing photography, you do everything you can to get your foot in the door, and nowadays there are a lot more people who are so called 'photographers', so its a dime a dozen.

If the newspapers are accepting amateur work, then there must be no different in their opinion compared to pro work when they can get it for free.

Do I support pros being fired? Heck no, but its not the amateurs fault. We've all been in those shoes.

I agree that some amateurs work is much better then staff photographers. But pros and amateurs giving things away for free devalues their work and everyone else's

I completely agree with you on that. I don't think anyone should be doing anything for free.

 

[West -]

Newspapers still have pros on staff, and they do all the important work. The "free" stuff is mostly internet filler to add color, but occasionally it's relative braking news captures, which most people will sell to a paper or TV station if it's newsworthy.
When was the last time you were at a sporting event or a political news conference and didn't see accredited photographers.

 

[Vince.1551]

It's a dog eat dog world. "Displace or be Replaced" [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AlanKlein80 19]

Two weeks ago, I gave the go ahead to a carpenter to proceed with some work in my house. He's been dragging his feet getting started. I just learned why. He just got a full time job 9-5 so can only work at night or weekends. So I have a choice. Let this work drag on or hire someone who's available Monday thru Friday.

Pro photographers should make commitments to potential clients. Play up the fact that the cheapo guy may decide to go back to his regular job leaving you stranded after he took pictures of your wedding. Regarding licenses,. there are also other things to contend with. Liability insurance - amateur photographers don't carry that, maybe even pros. But it's something to think about if one of their workers gets hurt shooting on the school's campus (or your house while they shoot the wedding party). Will your insurance cover their fall? Most places won't let workers on their property without this insurance. Pros should have that insurance so you argue against the amateurs and cheaper pros when you're trying to get work.

You have to show history of work, guarantees, etc. Price isn't everything. Many buyers care about a lot of things beside price. Update your portfolio with your best pictures and list the companies you did work for. Get referenes who will agree to accept calls from potential buyers. Advertise the number of people who will be at the shoot while the other guy depends only on himself. Ask your prospective customer what happens if he breaks a leg? Differentiate yourself from others. Go buy a book on selling the work of a small company regardless of the work it does. Start thinking and acting like a businessman rather than a photographer. If you can't claim your photos are that much better then the competition, you have to give them other reasons to buy your product.

.

 

[The_Traveler]

I have a confession.
When I was interested in becoming a male escort, at the beginning, I started giving 'it' away for free.
I thought that, if the experience was good, then I could start charging.
The reality was that all my clients told their friends that I was available for free and no one wanted to pay.
Oh, yeah. I got a few 'gifts' but people thought I should be grateful to do it for the experience and the exposure.

So after a while, I just opted out and left it to the pros.
But, I still get the occasional call; I just smile and tell them I sent me equipment in for cleaning and adjustment.

 

[tirediron]

I found it rather surprising too with a university because of my background and some knowledge of local sports and NCAA regs. (which may not apply if not in the states). If anything in my experience teams and arenas have gotten more strict and it's filtering down to high school level (but varies by sport, division, etc.).

I'd expect they'd hire/contact with a pro to better keep things under their control because it doesn't take much sometimes to compromise eligibility. (I'm thinking if an amateur/volunteer inadvertently did something not within guidelines the school might be limited in what they could do about it.) This arrangement seems rather 'loose' but it may be different than it seems.

The university near me laid off a photographer who worked for them but he got hired back once the next year's budget went thru. Varies depending on where you live, schools are funded but on budgets.

I wouldn't be surprised if going in this direction with it backfires on the school in some way but for the friend I guess it's a matter of this ending and finding another opportunity.

The more I think about this, the more I start to think that it may have something to do with the new "photographer" having made a donation, or having some other hold over the university. These days, $15K isn't chump-change to anyone.

 

[BillM]

Don't let me catch you poaching again

I have a confession.
When I was interested in becoming a male escort, at the beginning, I started giving 'it' away for free.
I thought that, if the experience was good, then I could start charging.
The reality was that all my clients told their friends that I was available for free and no one wanted to pay.
Oh, yeah. I got a few 'gifts' but people thought I should be grateful to do it for the experience and the exposure.

So after a while, I just opted out and left it to the pros.
But, I still get the occasional call; I just smile and tell them I sent me equipment in for cleaning and adjustment.

 

[West -]

[ These days, $15K isn't chump-change to anyone.

Wrong.
Apparently your private university isn't doing so good, but most "real" universities are.
Here's one from your neighbourhood UVIC that has a $323 Million annual budget, which is small compared to many of it's US counterparts.
Budget framework - University of Victoria

By comparison a US university ...
"The University of California’s projected operating revenue for 2011-12 is $22.5 billion to support its teaching, research and public service missions"