My Blad is dead. Help me think of a replacement!

[minicoop1985]

OK, here's the deal. My beloved 1600F jammed for good. I'm selling the Ektar 80mm f2.8 to finance a new medium format system, and I'm hoping for $750 for a budget. I'm torn between three. One, Bronica. Any Bronica system is inexpensive and I can have a larger selection of lenses, but no digital backs exist if I decide to go for one. Next is the Mamiya 645 Pro of some sort (I WANT an AF, but not in my budget). It'll accept quite a few different digital backs and lenses aren't too expensive, but it's more than the Bronica. Finally, the Mamiya RB/RZ 67. They're massive and mainly studio cameras (I suppose at 6'4" 250#, anything's portable here, really), but lots of digital options exist, though lenses are more expensive. I'm a bit torn on this. Incredible IQ can be had from any of these, and the best value is the Bronica, but I'm still debating going to digital MF. If you were in my shoes, what would you do? Thanks, guys.

 

[gsgary]

OK, here's the deal. My beloved 1600F jammed for good. I'm selling the Ektar 80mm f2.8 to finance a new medium format system, and I'm hoping for $750 for a budget. I'm torn between three. One, Bronica. Any Bronica system is inexpensive and I can have a larger selection of lenses, but no digital backs exist if I decide to go for one. Next is the Mamiya 645 Pro of some sort (I WANT an AF, but not in my budget). It'll accept quite a few different digital backs and lenses aren't too expensive, but it's more than the Bronica. Finally, the Mamiya RB/RZ 67. They're massive and mainly studio cameras (I suppose at 6'4" 250#, anything's portable here, really), but lots of digital options exist, though lenses are more expensive. I'm a bit torn on this. Incredible IQ can be had from any of these, and the best value is the Bronica, but I'm still debating going to digital MF. If you were in my shoes, what would you do? Thanks, guys.

Why don't you get the Blad repaired ?

 

[minicoop1985]

Nobody repairs the 1600f/1000F. I mean nobody. I've looked all over, too, but those old cameras are basically screwed. If it was a V series, that's what I would do, but this is older.

 

[Mike_E]

Nobody repairs the 1600f/1000F. I mean nobody. I've looked all over, too, but those old cameras are basically screwed. If it was a V series, that's what I would do, but this is older.

Sorry man, that's too bad.

The Bronicas were pretty good but why not bite the bullet and save for another Blad? The V backs are expensive as all get out but those for the Mamiya systems are too.

Second I'd probably go for the Mamiya. If you're really thinking about going digital here then why make yourself get a whole new system?

 

[minicoop1985]

Well, the lenses aren't compatible. I have one back that will work with a V series (the other is 1600f/1000f only) and have had terrible luck with Hasselblads in general (I touch them and they die). This system just really isn't very compatible with the later ones, unfortunately. I'm pretty much at the point where I would have to start over to go with a 500C/M or something, so if I'm switching systems, now's the time to do it.

You mean the film backs are that expensive? Really? Well, that's lame. I know the digi backs are stupid expensive, but you can't beat MF image quality and digital convenience.

 

[Derrel]

I dunno...depends on how deep your pocketbook is. The Bronica SQ, SQ-A, and SQ-Ai cameras are all pretty nifty shooters, and the design was well-proven. Backs for 120 rollfilm in 6x6 or 645 are easy to get, and there's also a 35mm panorama format back option. There are a couple metered prism finders; the one I have allows half-speed shutter settings, which is handy. The Zenzanon lenses are good, and affordable. The PS or Pro Series lenses are allegedly better, and are supposed to be really good on bokeh. Each lens has its OWN, electronically-timed Seiko electronic shutter, so that's a nice feature, which prevents a dead body shutter from ruining your day. I own an SQ-A and an SQA-M, the motorized model, and the 50 PS ,65 PS, pair of 80's, and a 150 PS and some backs. I LIKE the ability to shoot 645 as well as square. I shot the Mamiya RB-67 and 127mm in-studio for a while....gawd...what a monstrous camera that is, utterly unsuitable for hand-held work. The best medium format camera I have ever seen for hand-held work is the SQA-M...having the electric film advance and the big handgrip makes that camera a 645 shooter's dream with the eye-level metering prism installed...it even has a hot shoe!!!

Hassy built cameras the "European" way, the old-world way, with precision mechanical interfaces that depended upon precise lubrication, adjustment, and tuning and CLA's at $140 a pop...Bronica and the other Japan-based makers went with self-lubricating parts, and NO need for yearly or bi-annual CLA's...an entirely,entirely different ethos. Hassy was a Swiss watch that needed to be maintained, whereas the Japan-based MF camera makers and the 35mm SLR makers designed cameras that needed NO maintaining for years and years on end. Instead of complex gear trains for shutter timing, Bronica went with QUARTZ timing, courtesy of Seiko, a pioneering firm in that technology. Hassy was always somewhat jam-prone, due to its late 1940's mechanical design ethos.A great camera,yes, but highly complicated, with many,many small, critical, complex parts.As you know, the 1000 and 1600 were NOT made for all that long a time.

 

[limr]

Nooooooo! Not Blad!! At least he's still good for stormtrooper shots, right?

I can't speak to Bronicas because I've never shot one. I know they're good cameras and have seen lovely shots from them.

Having said that, I second the vote for Mamiya. I love both of mine. Even though the shutter on my 645 Pro suddenly decided to malfunction and made me ruin an entire roll and half of another roll

You might want to think about how you feel about formats, too, and using a prism vs waist-level finder. The Bronica might be more familiar in terms of handling, but you might prefer a prism on a Mamiya 645. I personally prefer a wlf for medium-format (and I still want one for my 645 event though some warn me about not being able to shoot portrait with it, but I don't care. I never shoot portrait with that camera anyway.)

 

[minicoop1985]

I had a Bronica ETRS_i for a while. Maybe I'll get back into one. I'm not sure if I want 6x6 or 645, so maybe the SQ might be a better idea. So torn between that and Mamiya...

You hit it dead on with the Blads. The early ones were precision instruments, vs the Nikon F, which is comparable to a Mack truck.

Edit: Yes, Leonore, poor Blad is really dead this time. It's over.

I'm gonna comparison shop them. I remember what the ETRS_i was like with a prism, which was odd, but I'm willing to do either prism or WL. If I get a 645, it will be prism for sure.

 

[chris]

I used a RB67 and 90mm lens for many years until it disappeare during a break-in. It's about the sama size, shape and weight as a house brick but that together with a good strap, strong neck and the waist level viewfinder made it very easy to hand hold. It was also superb when mounted on a triopod. An added advantage is that it is entirely mechanical - you can't run out of battery power but you do need a separate light meter for critical work, though at a push the sunny sixteen rule works, especially if shooting negatives. In addition to it's other bricklike qualities it shared robustness.

The 6x4.5, 6x7 and 6x8 backs can all be rotated to swap instantly from horizontal to vertical format and of course it is possible to change backs mid roll.

You have to push two levers for each exposure, one on the back to advance the flm and one on the camera body to cock the shutter but with a little practice this can be done quite fluidly and easily - you'll never get to 8 frames per second but should be able to get it down to around 1 per second.

The waist level view finder takes a little getting used to if you are panning since the image is reversed, though you could use one of the prism view finders; after a while I found that this was not a problem and just got used to the composition being reversed and having to pan the opposite way to the subject in the viewfinder.

 

[robbins.photo]

Ok, should I be the one to point out that this is how the book Pet Cemetery starts?

 

[cgw]

Making digital back options a deciding factor seems short-sighted. Every advance in full-frame DSLR sensor technology diminishes the likelihood of affordable MF digital backs. Was Hasselblad really serious when it rolled out a $15,000 back for the V series cameras?

What's your preference, format-wise? They're all orphan systems now but the big Mamiyas seem to be the most common on the used market. I own all three systems and probably shoot my RB67 Pro S kit the most often. It's big but far from just a studio camera. The late series KL lenses are first rate. The Bronica is really the only other 6x6 SLR system camera option outside Hasselblad. Very compact for a 6x6 with good lenses in the older S and PS series, the Bronica SQ-Ai and SQ-B are the newest models and preferable to old, often high-mileage SQ/SQA bodies. Never a fan of the SQA-M since it's a door stop if the integral motor fails. The Mamiya 645 Super/Pro/ProTL bodies are tough and reliable but, again, it's worth the wait to find a low mileage, late model example. Mamiya glass is good and very affordable in common focal lengths.

 

[minicoop1985]

Format wise, I have no absolute must have. I'm fine with 645, 6x6, 6x7... I'm becoming partial to 6x7, which leaves the Mamiya RB/RZ, but I'm not completely sold on any of them.

I should note that any digital back I buy is going to be very, very much used. $15k is way out of my budget. Sadly, that Hassy back is WAY cheaper than a lot of the other options out there... Like the 80 mp backs.

 

[tirediron]

I like my Mamiya 645 AFD II; direct coupling with digital backs (which I have yet to buy), cheap (and very, very good) glass...

 

[compur]

I haven't done a cost analysis but Silvestri advertises a digital back adapter for some Bronica models. B&H sells them new for about a grand which isn't cheap but neither are the Mamiya digital options.

Building a film/digital system is going to be costly no matter which way you go.

Personally, I would go with the Bronica choice here but that's probably because I don't care that much about MF digital myself.

 

[minicoop1985]

I think I'm leaning towards RB67. My local camera shop let me borrow one, and while incredibly confusing at first, it's a dream to use. And I can get a great deal on 3 lenses (one needs a CLA), 3 backs, and an extension tube too. It's nowhere near as heavy as I thought it would be.