"My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit"

[terri]

Goodness, how did "critique" ever happen before the advent of digital photography?

A real critique takes time, and should be done verbally - in this forum, that means, written. Just because the viewer now has the ability to rearrange pixels to satisfy their own vision of what would improve an image doesn't automatically mean that is THE WAY TO CRITIQUE - and somehow, a photographer who prefers not to have his image rearranged in such a manner is considered the lazy one!

Critique 101:
* A critique is not about pointing out what is wrong with an image. A good critique will analyze the photograph, point out its strengths as well as its weaknesses, and respond to the image from an individual perspective.
* Offer a response to the technical aspects: exposure (over/under/just right), focus (subject in focus, too soft, or perfect for the subject), and DOF: deep, shallow, appropriate for the subject? And lighting: too harsh, soft, is it enhancing or detracting from the shot?
* Offer a response on composition: is the crop appropriate, or should there be more/less back or foreground? Rule of thirds: does the subject placement work? Are there lines that work within the image, lead out, or give a balanced feel? Is there texture, pattern, or shape that is pleasing?
* Mood or feel: can the viewer tell the photographer's intent? Does the mood fit the image - is it successful to you, the viewer? Is it making a statement, telling a story, conveying emotion?
* Accept that your interpretation as a viewer is only ONE interpretation, and it may differ from the photographer's - or the next viewer. Do you really have any insight to offer? If so, will it engage other interpretations?

I don't want my images edited because most of what I post, when I do post, are alternative processes. My images are considered complete when I post them, and while I will always value a real critique, offered in the spirit of support and following the guidelines above, I welcome them. But I will never be happy with anyone who helps themselves to my image to move pixels around and then slap it back on this forum, saying, "There. Better. Now go figure it out, and do it this way if you want to be taken seriously." Which seems to be all that is being suggested in the way of help, with perhaps a mini-tutorial on photo editing software thrown in via PM. Big whoop.

If anyone would like to truly take the time to evaluate a work and offer critique, these guidelines might be helpful. Otherwise, it reads more like children arguing over paint by numbers around here. Sorry - just my two cents.

First, that's your opinion, Terri, not a RULE

Before digital photography, people used cropping angles and grease pencils to teach the uninitiated.
(I still have some scribbled on prints; and I can't remember what the scribbles meant.

This kind of verbal critique works quite well when both the giver and the recipient speak the language, understand the issues and can make that intuitive jump from words to pictures, when the maker is past the stage of making technical mistakes.

This kind of verbal critique is tiring, effort intensive and wasteful to provide this kind of 'counselling' to a new person who would benefit from a visual example of a visual art and isn't yet able to get good composition and is struggling with the basics.

I can just picture a ballet student saying to the instructor,'F... no, don't show me, just sit down and tell me. I want to do it myself.'

Oh, so comparing a visual, two-dimensional art with dance is apples to apples. Come now.

Also...I respect you mightily in many ways, Lew, but in this instance you're incorrect - the above is not simply "my opinion." I'm surprised you would believe that to be true. I think we do agree on the point that what I described can be tiring, because it does take time and effort. But that is my point - if people aren't really interested in anything more than having someone simply re-do their work on a forum, you aren't helping them. Leonore touched on this already, drawing comparisons to a classroom setting. Whereas taking people through the steps of an actual critique, discussing both positive and negative, can be very illuminating. They should take the insight of those who know better to go try again - and lord knows that's one thing that digital makes very easy to do.

Peace out.

 

[terri]

oh. you mean like your bus stop photo? I think you should go back and study composition some more. I had asked to edit, have you given permission yet?

I must admit that I think I will be long dead when either of two things occur; 1) I would give you permission to edit and re-post anything of mine or 2) when I actually think I might learn from your opinion.

Uncalled for, and this is the second time someone from the moderator team has had to remind everyone to keep the snark out of the discussion. There is no reason for this kind of personal jab.

Please keep it respectful, everyone - thanks!!

 

[scotts2014se]

Not to keep this alive, but... I rarely learn the reason why or how to do it on my own when someone does it for me. If the reason my work is wrong is pointed out, and I agree, it gives me the opportunity to figure out how to see it and fix it myself. I appreciate everyones insight, but I may not agree, and if I don't and you edit my photo, then you just wasted your time doing so. On that note, mine are OK to edit, knock yourself out if you feel. Believing that there is nothing more you could learn from ANYONE, is very naive, however I do understand not wanting others to edit your work, it's yours, and if you are happy with it, then nobody needs to mess with it, in which case it might be a good idea to post in a non C&C thread or state that it is not up for C&C. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Derrel]

When my children were little, they were so proud when they pooped in a potty chair and they'd drag me or their mother to show it off.
They almost couldn't bear to flush it away but certainly insisted that only they could pull the lever on the toilet.

I see many similarities here.

Oh, how I love stories about parenting small kids! Keep these great stories coming, Lew!!!

 

[table1349]

When my children were little, they were so proud when they pooped in a potty chair and they'd drag me or their mother to show it off.
They almost couldn't bear to flush it away but certainly insisted that only they could pull the lever on the toilet.

I see many similarities here.

Oh, how I love stories about parenting small kids! Keep these great stories coming, Lew!!!

Well everyone has to have some kind of $#!% to be proud of in their life. :lmao:

 

[minicoop1985]

This thread... :er:

Alright, fine, here's my opinion and I'm out. Frankly, as long as people aren't chopping my images and claiming their own, I don't care. My client work, no, that doesn't go here in the first place and doesn't get edited by anyone other than me. That being said, people have a myriad of reasons to allow or not allow others to edit them. Whether they do or not, I respect their decision not just because I'm a crappy editor, but because it's what the photographer wants done with their photo.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Allowing editing, opens doors for different avenues if learning, of seeing, of thinking, visually, for everyone involved.

Not allowing editing, closes those doors for everyone, including yourself.

 

[bribrius]

This thread... :er:

Alright, fine, here's my opinion and I'm out. Frankly, as long as people aren't chopping my images and claiming their own, I don't care. My client work, no, that doesn't go here in the first place and doesn't get edited by anyone other than me. That being said, people have a myriad of reasons to allow or not allow others to edit them. Whether they do or not, I respect their decision not just because I'm a crappy editor, but because it's what the photographer wants done with their photo.

Thinking about as in your case with client work, if someone edits your photo are you even still technically allowed to use it?? or would there be a copyright claim issue or something to prevent it even being sold at that point? Is that a case where you would have to revert back to your original anyway or would their still be a intellectual claim even on changes to the original image?

 

[minicoop1985]

This thread... :er:

Alright, fine, here's my opinion and I'm out. Frankly, as long as people aren't chopping my images and claiming their own, I don't care. My client work, no, that doesn't go here in the first place and doesn't get edited by anyone other than me. That being said, people have a myriad of reasons to allow or not allow others to edit them. Whether they do or not, I respect their decision not just because I'm a crappy editor, but because it's what the photographer wants done with their photo.

Thinking about as in your case with client work, if someone edits your photo are you even still technically allowed to use it?? or would there be a copyright claim issue or something to prevent it even being sold at that point? Is that a case where you would have to revert back to your original anyway or would their still be a intellectual claim even on changes to the original image?

That's complicated, but if you enlist someone's help ensuring they have the knowledge that what they do will be handed in to a client as your work, while that sounds all kind of shady, would probably not be an issue. Or, for example, if you were a great photographer but horrible editor and had a photoshop artist friend that can't operate a Canon Powershot and combined forces, that would be horribly inefficient but that would probably not be an issue. If you let someone else edit your photo, but don't tell them that you're using it as your work, that sure as hell doesn't sound right to me.

 

[Scatterbrained]

Using separate retouchers is quite common. Nothing to worry about, most high end fashion shooters, and many commercial/advertising shooters will have a retoucher working with them.

 

[manaheim]

This thread... :er:

Alright, fine, here's my opinion and I'm out. Frankly, as long as people aren't chopping my images and claiming their own, I don't care. My client work, no, that doesn't go here in the first place and doesn't get edited by anyone other than me. That being said, people have a myriad of reasons to allow or not allow others to edit them. Whether they do or not, I respect their decision not just because I'm a crappy editor, but because it's what the photographer wants done with their photo.

Thinking about as in your case with client work, if someone edits your photo are you even still technically allowed to use it?? or would there be a copyright claim issue or something to prevent it even being sold at that point? Is that a case where you would have to revert back to your original anyway or would their still be a intellectual claim even on changes to the original image?

That's complicated, but if you enlist someone's help ensuring they have the knowledge that what they do will be handed in to a client as your work, while that sounds all kind of shady, would probably not be an issue. Or, for example, if you were a great photographer but horrible editor and had a photoshop artist friend that can't operate a Canon Powershot and combined forces, that would be horribly inefficient but that would probably not be an issue. If you let someone else edit your photo, but don't tell them that you're using it as your work, that sure as hell doesn't sound right to me.

Uh... usually folks post up small images compared to the originals. I would sincerely hope you wouldn't take the tiny version that someone edited and use that for... anything.

At the end of the day, once you have seen what the edits are, you have to go make them yourself (or variations of them that make you happy). That's sort of the whole point of the process. Otherwise you don't learn all that much.

 

[Designer]

Yet another wrinkle in this topic:

We don't all have the same software, so if someone uses PhotoShop, for instance, to manipulate my photo, how would I duplicate that on my somewhat lower-powered editor?

 

[pixmedic]

The_traveler has a really fantastic method of helping someone with processing.
Skype. just send him a photo you want help with, get on skype with him, and you can see his computer screen on your computer screen, and with headphones and a mic he can walk you through every step he uses in Photoshop or lightroom to edit a photo, and you can see how he does it in real time.
its really cool.

 

[runnah]

The_traveler has a really fantastic method of helping someone with processing.
Skype. just send him a photo you want help with, get on skype with him, and you can see his computer screen on your computer screen, and with headphones and a mic he can walk you through every step he uses in Photoshop or lightroom to edit a photo, and you can see how he does it in real time.
its really cool.

Except that you have to see Lew in real time.

 

[mishele]

The_traveler has a really fantastic method of helping someone with processing.
Skype. just send him a photo you want help with, get on skype with him, and you can see his computer screen on your computer screen, and with headphones and a mic he can walk you through every step he uses in Photoshop or lightroom to edit a photo, and you can see how he does it in real time.
its really cool.

Except that you have to see Lew in real time.

And nude.