Nicely Denying Digital File Sales.......

[480sparky]

...........I genuinely believe that people are in many cases doing themselves a dis-service when they insist on only purchasing digital files. Images get lost in digital storage, important images get lost, and when a client is paying hundreds or thousands for those files, they deserve to see them. .............

I don't get this. They get what they wanted.......... the digital files. Is it the sellers' responsibility to maintain those files for the buyer? I think not. If the buyer doesn't have the wherewithal to set up a rigorous backup procedure, that's not the seller's problem.

I lost a ten-dollar bill last month. Should the US Treasury Department be responsible?

 

[tirediron]

...........I genuinely believe that people are in many cases doing themselves a dis-service when they insist on only purchasing digital files. Images get lost in digital storage, important images get lost, and when a client is paying hundreds or thousands for those files, they deserve to see them. .............

I don't get this. They get what they wanted.......... the digital files. Is it the sellers' responsibility to maintain those files for the buyer? I think not. If the buyer doesn't have the wherewithal to set up a rigorous backup procedure, that's not the seller's problem.

I lost a ten-dollar bill last month. Should the US Treasury Department be responsible?

Sparky... you're not getting my point. It's nothing to do with back-ups ('though that is a service that I provide as a courtesy to my clients). My point is that when people add yet more digital images to their ever-increasing collection, they get mixed amongst all the others and forgotten about and rarely, if ever seen again. It's sad, and I (and yes, there's no small part of personal vanity involved here) want my work to be seen, and I think when the client is paying for a professional service, they should get tangible value for their money. Granted, what they do with digital files is their choice.

 

[Designer]

Alternate scenario:

I would like to buy some digital files from a professional in Arizona. His SmugMug page lists only 5x7 prints, but no 8x10 prints or art papers. If he printed them the cost of mailing prints would have to be added to his price for printing.

Instead of his printing and shipping, if he could shoot me the electronic files, I would be willing to pay a reasonable price per shot. If I could score the files, and print them myself, I would save the cost of handling and shipping.

The last print I bought was an odd size, so I had to make a custom frame for it.

 

[vintagesnaps]

I found working with families (not in photography) that they'd often talk about something they'd heard about, read about, or whatever. That may or may not be the best option for them/their child. It takes providing other options, and sometimes they'd go, oh! and end liking another option better than what they'd been asking about in the first place - because they never heard about the other options.

Seems like with photography people want the Raw files or 'all' the pictures etc. just because they heard something about it but don't really understand what they're asking for or what will actually meet their needs.

It seems to be a disservice to just go with the latest trend instead of providing other options. I think there's a difference providing digital images for commercial use and providing digital copies and prints for someone's personal use as far as what's provided and the pricing.

Try ASMP or PPA to find out from a pro photographers organization what are some good options that are workable.

 

[Designer]

Seems like with photography people want the Raw files or 'all' the pictures etc.

One daughter-in-law is that way. She is very insistent when she asks for all the pictures. I simply cannot turn over the obvious flubs or even some that need WB adjustments. Is that prideful? Maybe, but it also saves time and frustration for anyone who is viewing them. Instead of seeing utter crapola and flipping past it, I delete the crapola, thereby saving everyone time.

Some years ago we all went to our local pro for family shots. My wife asked him for the digital files, even though he had shot everything on film. His lab did the scanning, so we did receive a CD with the files, but we have not done anything with them since. No prints, no sharing, nothing at all.

 

[480sparky]

Sparky... you're not getting my point. It's nothing to do with back-ups ('though that is a service that I provide as a courtesy to my clients). My point is that when people add yet more digital images to their ever-increasing collection, they get mixed amongst all the others and forgotten about and rarely, if ever seen again. It's sad, and I (and yes, there's no small part of personal vanity involved here) want my work to be seen, and I think when the client is paying for a professional service, they should get tangible value for their money. Granted, what they do with digital files is their choice.

So, your point is........... you won't sell them digital files because you think your work won't be seen by them?

So what? If I paid you to create a print, then I took it home and shoved it into the back of a closet, why should you care? Or if I paid you for an album chock full of 4x6s and put it on a shelf never to be opened again? What's the difference?

Perhaps we should create an Image Viewing Enforcement Police force. Go door-to-door, demanding to see proof that customers who have purchased photos from others (either print or digital) have actually looked at them. If so, what criteria should be used? How often must they look at them? For how long? Should higher-priced images be viewed more often, or for longer periods of time? (insert snarky emoji here)

 

[orljustin]

Nooooooooooo... a lot of people think they want digital files. They think that, because that's today's norm. ............

If everyone asks for digital files "because that's today's norm", then............ that's what the market is demanding. Why is not relevant.

And if you cannot (or simply refuse) fulfill the needs of the market, you ain't gonna last long. Just ask Kodak.

Amen. And the sooner the better. When I read about nonsense like $10k for a digital file, I hope to see them out of business soon.

 

[480sparky]

Amen. And the sooner the better. When I read about nonsense like $10k for a digital file, I hope to see them out of business soon.

$10k for a digital file is not an unreasonable price.......... but it would depend on the intended use.

$10k for one file, just so the customer can have a print or two, or an enlargement, made up, yeah, that's outrageous.

But if James Patterson called me up and said, "Hey, Sparky... I noticed an image you have available for purchase. I'd like to obtain digital rights to use it on the cover of my next book that's due out this November. We expect this new book to sell 50 million copies in the first year alone. And I'd also require that you remove that image from all possible future sales." $10k here is outrageous as well. Outrageously LOW!

 

[orljustin]

Well, obviously that isn't what is being discussed here.

 

[Flash Harry]

I agree, it needs to be priced on usage though certain stuff I'd never hand over and nobody gets files or prints of every shot either otherwise they'd blame the tog for those crappy shots they themselves ruined by blinking, digital has been the best thing ever for saving otherwise useless shots with a head or eye transplant.

 

[Braineack]

Looks like wall size canvas prints (54"x120") go for $700 - $800 a print. I would add 50% to that price for the Digital file.

I just searched my email:
1 - 46x30 Traditional Thin Wrap Canvas
Grand Total: $130.92

I'm just going to guess the OPs prices aren't close to that. I'd always opt on the side of making money. Selling the file to them to print put pure profit in your pocket on a file that you'll more than likely never look at ever again in your career.

 

[OnTheFly7]

Great remarks and thoughts.

Update.......

She emailed me once again stating that she wants the file, because she can get a canvas print made at Wal-Mart for $40, rather than pay what my pricing is for canvas.

I fully grasp the concept of pure profit on offering the digital files. That is one of the reasons that I started to offer social media sized images for purchase. However, even if I did offer the sell her the full size, full rez file, it will be quite a bit more than the $40 she would spend at Wal-Mart. By the time she buys the file from me, has the canvas made at Wal-Mart, she could have purchased the canvas from me for less.

I am finding this to be more and more of an issue with the younger (I'm not that old, 38) generations who want everything now, want it for free and think if they whine loud enough, they will get their way.

I can understand most side of the arguement here, but for me, it is also coming down to principle. I find it extremely rude to ask someone for a file for cheap, when they never paid a session fee, just to go somewhere else to get what they want. To me, that is unethical on the consumers part. Goes back to my working retail days in the outdoors industry for smaller pro shops. Someone would buy a bow or a reel at some big box store, not know how to use it (or have an issue with it) and then they would come to us to show them (because the big box store who sold it to them had no idea) and they would expect free service on a product they purchased else where.

I just don't get the thought process~

 

[Braineack]

I fully grasp the concept of pure profit on offering the digital files. That is one of the reasons that I started to offer social media sized images for purchase. However, even if I did offer the sell her the full size, full rez file, it will be quite a bit more than the $40 she would spend at Wal-Mart. By the time she buys the file from me, has the canvas made at Wal-Mart, she could have purchased the canvas from me for less.

present that same argument to her.

 

[Designer]

To me, that is unethical ..

The concept of ethics seems to be lacking in much of the population. You probably can't do much about it.

 

[Destin]

Alternate scenario:

I would like to buy some digital files from a professional in Arizona. His SmugMug page lists only 5x7 prints, but no 8x10 prints or art papers. If he printed them the cost of mailing prints would have to be added to his price for printing.

Instead of his printing and shipping, if he could shoot me the electronic files, I would be willing to pay a reasonable price per shot. If I could score the files, and print them myself, I would save the cost of handling and shipping.

The last print I bought was an odd size, so I had to make a custom frame for it.

Alternate scenario:

I would like to buy some digital files from a professional in Arizona. His SmugMug page lists only 5x7 prints, but no 8x10 prints or art papers. If he printed them the cost of mailing prints would have to be added to his price for printing.

Instead of his printing and shipping, if he could shoot me the electronic files, I would be willing to pay a reasonable price per shot. If I could score the files, and print them myself, I would save the cost of handling and shipping.

The last print I bought was an odd size, so I had to make a custom frame for it.

I fully grasp the concept of pure profit on offering the digital files. That is one of the reasons that I started to offer social media sized images for purchase. However, even if I did offer the sell her the full size, full rez file, it will be quite a bit more than the $40 she would spend at Wal-Mart. By the time she buys the file from me, has the canvas made at Wal-Mart, she could have purchased the canvas from me for less.

present that same argument to her.

I get yhat

Great remarks and thoughts.

Update.......

She emailed me once again stating that she wants the file, because she can get a canvas print made at Wal-Mart for $40, rather than pay what my pricing is for canvas.

I fully grasp the concept of pure profit on offering the digital files. That is one of the reasons that I started to offer social media sized images for purchase. However, even if I did offer the sell her the full size, full rez file, it will be quite a bit more than the $40 she would spend at Wal-Mart. By the time she buys the file from me, has the canvas made at Wal-Mart, she could have purchased the canvas from me for less.

I am finding this to be more and more of an issue with the younger (I'm not that old, 38) generations who want everything now, want it for free and think if they whine loud enough, they will get their way.

I can understand most side of the arguement here, but for me, it is also coming down to principle. I find it extremely rude to ask someone for a file for cheap, when they never paid a session fee, just to go somewhere else to get what they want. To me, that is unethical on the consumers part. Goes back to my working retail days in the outdoors industry for smaller pro shops. Someone would buy a bow or a reel at some big box store, not know how to use it (or have an issue with it) and then they would come to us to show them (because the big box store who sold it to them had no idea) and they would expect free service on a product they purchased else where.

I just don't get the thought process~

I get that your primary business at this event wasn't selling prints to folks..

But for event coverage photography charging north of $40 for a file is absolutely absurd. The market won't support it, as your situation has proven.

I'll say it again: the average going rate for a full resolution file from a sporting event in the northeast is anywhere from $15-25. And I've found that even at $25 they don't sell because they're viewed as too expensive.

Unless you're shooting an event with some very affluent people, asking $40+ for a file from an event isn't going to happen. Period.