Saying you like something

[pgriz]

In the beginning,
there was chaos, noise and confusion.
People were getting angry.
No-one was understanding what the others were trying to say.
There were threats, accusations and banning.
Eventually some in the population tired of this.
They got together, and under the light of a full moon,
made a PACT.
Those who follow the Pact, will have
enlightment.
Those who do not, will be doomed to hear a cacophony.
The Pact was going to be the way.
Unfortunately,
people being people,
the Pact was mis-understood,
then ignored,
then forgotten.

Alas.

And yet, the sun still rises in the east.
and the moon makes the tides move.

 

[bribrius]

What's changing is how we "consume" images. At one point, they were the equivalent of bringing out the fine china and silverware. Now it's a quick grab with a plastic spoon. And how much precision and care are you (or anyone) going to put on the latter?

YES, it has taken me a good, long while to come to what I think is a solid understanding of the changing ways we consume/use/share/show images now, as we head toward the middle of the second decade of the 21str century. There have been some VERY important, really HUGELY fundamental shifts in how images are shot; processed;displayed;archived;shown;shared;thrown away or "filed".

The Online Photographer on Tuesday, May 27, 2014 published a piece entitled Is This 'A Great Time For Photography"?

I think people here should read it. The Online Photographer: Is This 'A Great Time for Photography'?

And, vis a vis the change in how we "consume" images; I think it's important to note that the "voices giving C&C" that we used to have here in TPF, well, a LOT of those voices had some pretty serious prejudice against Hipstamatic, Instagram, Facebook, and smart phone pictures. Not to name names, but there are people in this very thread that have shown a consistent dismissal of cell phone images, Instagram-type filtering, and so on. Really, pretty much bashing the whole new way, the whole new tools and mobile end of photographic consuming, because it's apparently deemed not worthy...it's not "what THEY like", and other spurious justifications to dismiss the new way of consuming images.

Again, you know, I don't want to make this into a big pi&& and moan session. I'll return to something I wrote in my first post in this thread: I think many people would do well to shoot cameras that shoot in a native square format. And short of an old Mamiya like gsgary and limr have, or minicoop's old Hassy 1600F, the cheapest and most readily available square-format camera is the one in the Instagram application. I dunno...I started with a 6x6 cm camera, then went to 135,then got a series of old TLR's, then went to Instamatic 126 square. I really think a LOT of people would honestly benefit by shooting SQUARES. I've recently gotten my old square-format Bronica and my Yashica 635 TLR out, and am starting to think about square composition more so than I have since the early 1990's when I retired the Bronica.

you know what it is.
it's all crap. Not the image quality per se, that is improved. But the entire element of photography itself and the images now.
Think about it, some chick goes to the store and buys a dslr. goes online here, gets critiqued on her images, like it is serious or something. Then she notices the other billions of images online, and realizes they are a dime a dozen. comes back on tpf, looks back at all the photos, processing, whatever. It it suddenly clicks to her. May take two years, maybe three, five? It is all crap.
Many images are purely consumer driven , driven by the economy. CRAP. Doesn't matter how good the images are. CRAP. Critique to you hearts content. They are the byproduct of our system hardly art most of it. So this woman (sorry I called her a chick) starts catching on to this. Look in the gallerys, look at the contests. Mostly CRAP. Copies, of copies of processed copies. It's like a sick joke. how is my photo? Looks great, like all the other billions. That's the critique. which basically means, IT ISNT WORTH A DAMN THING. what are we trying to teach everyone? To make another billion processed images that looks like the other fifteen billion ones? And some take this crap WAY to serious on this site. Like they think they are ansel adams or something themselves. And what is scary is most of the billions of images are probably better than theirs. Yet they give advice, on giving advice, on how things work...
now lets think about this.......
yep, don't mean a damn thing.

All that matters, is it is worth something to YOU WHO TOOK IT.

Plastic silverware run off a assembly line fits perfectly well for plastic images run off a assembly line.

"hey, lets critique and try to make the perfect photo"

hell I dunno, why not just start with trying to make a photo worth something at all...

cheap plastic cellphone cameras are perfect for taking cheap plastic photos. Maybe most people should just do that.

so this woman starts off thinking "hey I want to learn photography!"
until she realizes, wow, it is all processed crap.
And if you are going to move up from that level, you got to go to animation, video, somewhere else. Really. Even that being overdone to a extent.
Hardly a thing original anymore. And more you look at others work, more you copy it. crap copying crap. Not that the work isn't good, but you get to a certain extent, where there is a SO MUCH OF IT, it all become crap. Dime store images, except worth less than a dime.


There is extremely little appreciation for modern photography or the digital processed images that go with it, to put it mildly, it is more on the level of entertainment value or consumer sales than anything. i was just discussing this with another photgrapher a few hours ago, movie to video productions he is. Discussing walking taking photos, i told him it is all a freakn cliche, a cheap processed one. He suggested i look at his website (so there ya go). Ain't none of it real. i want something new. To get that it has to be old and reborn. He suggested i build on what is already there. Make what is there, even better.
build on what, i couldnt tell ya. Can you build on a pile of crap?

Digital image that never makes it to print, is like critiquing the color texture of a turd right before you flush it. sure, might be a good looking turd, But looks like most of the rest. now pull the handle and send it on it's way.
people caught on to this, "everyone does photography" thinking only a few years back. Now it is closer to "it ain't fukn worth nothn!"

People dont even look at it as real now. you get maybe "that cool" or "neat". i can't even knock facebook anymore i've seen some better photos on facebook recently than on here.

if people stop doing this, it wouldnt shock me at all how many thousand copycat images do you want to make? Me, this is something else for me.

sad to say, but you know what it really is? society grew out of it. The difference between having the bottle of milk brought to your door or going to the supermarket and picking one out of the thousand jugs. Promoting the value of photography is like promoting corporate supermarkets and those gallons of milk. It just wont ever be the same. so you want almond, one percent two percent, chocolate, skim, dry ....?

 

[AlanO]

Saying Thank you

Some potential questions:

Did someone take the time to "critique" your photo?

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/black-white-gallery/352420-onlookers.html

OP coming from the same guy that doesn't acknowledge C&C on his own photos.

Good Luck!

 

[snerd]

Bribrius.......... I refuse to give in to your pessimism. So there. You, you............ that's what you are!!

 

[bribrius]

Bribrius.......... I refuse to give in to your pessimism. So there. You, you............ that's what you are!!

yeah yeah, sorry. I had that little convo with him. walking with my camera, read this thread. That is what came out.

 

[Steve5D]

If I like something, I say that. I may or may not point out a few things which make me like it but, if I say "I like it", that means, as a whole, I dig it; don't change anything.

I think long, drawn out explanations as to why someone likes something are more an ego stroke for the person making the comments. If someone says "Wow, I like how there are no flaming puppies in this picture", that comment may very well have some merit, but is it helpful at all? Beyond "don't put flaming puppies in your photos" it doesn't really amount to much.

What is important to like, and what is important to dislike?

If I don't like something, I really do try to point out why. If I like it? Saying I like it is enough...

 

[limr]

Bribrius.......... I refuse to give in to your pessimism. So there. You, you............ that's what you are!!

yeah yeah, sorry. I had that little convo with him. walking with my camera, read this thread. That is what came out.

Well, I for one thought it was a fantastic rant! I love a good rant.

The funny thing I thought about while reading your last paragraph about milk is how at least around here, milk and grocery delivery is THE THING to do now.

Film sales are up. Vinyl and turntable sales are way up. Grocery and milk delivery services are expanding. People are mail ordering everything (just from a computer now instead of a Sears Roebuck catalog.)

Everything old is new again.

 

[minicoop1985]

The funny thing I thought about while reading your last paragraph about milk is how at least around here, milk and grocery delivery is THE THING to do now.

Film sales are up. Vinyl and turntable sales are way up. Grocery and milk delivery services are expanding. People are mail ordering everything (just from a computer now instead of a Sears Roebuck catalog.)

Everything old is new again.

Huh, I hadn't thought about this. Interesting.

 

[nzmacro]

Well I'm new here and let me just check up on something.

Just going through a few photography books here, ahhhhhh who exactly are you, I can't find ya. Do you judge for National Geo by any chance. Sure sounds like it. I know what I like, I have opinions and am aloud to express those opinions, just like you are doing here as long as they fall within the rules. Maybe I'm just not as famous as you I guess.

There is one thing I know, I'm just ecstatic that you are not a bird photographer (we could have real fun with you), because some of those I call elitist as well. I avoid them like a plague and should have avoided this post as well ......... when will I learn.

Danny.

 

[snerd]

................ should have avoided this post as well ......... when will I learn.

Danny.

Oh, group therapy is mandatory. For everyone. Pass it on!

 

[Vince.1551]

Guys guys enough already. This is going no where.

Admin if you could and would I suggest adding another sub-forum for 'in-depth' critiquing. Something like a 'photo clinic'.

This should resolve most of the issue here and everyone can continue to post and like...and for those who wants some in-depth critique for whatever reasons like going for competitions, advise on commercial applications, going for photography distinctions or whatsoever can post in that sub-forum so that those who are familiar in that area can advise.

I sincerely wish everyone can continue to built a conducive environment here by mutually respecting the differences in each other's view and refrain from personal attacks or passing any derogatory remarks.

 

[manaheim]

If I like something, I say that. I may or may not point out a few things which make me like it but, if I say "I like it", that means, as a whole, I dig it; don't change anything.

I think long, drawn out explanations as to why someone likes something are more an ego stroke for the person making the comments. If someone says "Wow, I like how there are no flaming puppies in this picture, that comment may very well have some merit, but is it helpful at all? Beyond "don't put flaming puppies in your photos" it doesn't really amount to much.

What is important to like, and what is important to dislike?

If I don't like something, I really do try to point out why. If I like it? Saying I like it is enough...

Oddly, I mostly agree with this.

I know where Lew was coming from, but... as I have been watching this thread, I've been realizing that most of the people who post pictures that "I think are good", are people who know EXACTLY what they are trying to do and are putting out a quality image. binga, mishele and erose come to mind.

When they post an image, it's always going to be GOOD. Depending on the person, I may like them more or less depending on the subject, but in the end I feel like these are people I cannot contribute much to other than to say "I really like this" or "I really don't [like this]".

For people a little less skilled, I find myself usually feeling like I can help tell them how to better execute my interpretation of their intended vision... and then I could say if I liked or didn't like what they have so far... but I often feel like I can't be SURE what they're trying to accomplish and who am I to make such assumptions? Who is anyone, really?

So yeah... the more I do this... the more I fall into the category of "I can identify what is good. I can identify what I like. I can articulate those things effectively, and I feel like it isn't really my place to do so."

 

[Steve5D]

Oddly, I mostly agree with this.

I knew you'd come to your senses...

:mrgreen:

 

[AlanKlein]

Half the issues with C&C is the photographer who posts the picture. The photographer can't ask for a critique and then argue back to the person when they give you their opinion. Usually it's responses like: "Well, I couldn't get closer to the subject." or "My lens wasn't long enough" or "Well, the lighting was bad." No one really cares what problems you have as a photographer. The photo must stand on it's own. Trying to explain away a critique gets you no where. You learn nothing if you do that.

Also, what happens when you're defensive, no one wants to give you an honest critique. Who wants to be told your critique doesn't matter or is wrong. So you post simple platitudes like, "Nice work."

 

[limr]

Half the issues with C&C is the photographer who posts the picture. The photographer can't ask for a critique and then argue back to the person when they give you their opinion. Usually it's responses like: "Well, I couldn't get closer to the subject." or "My lens wasn't long enough" or "Well, the lighting was bad." No one really cares what problems you have as a photographer. The photo must stand on it's own. Trying to explain away a critique gets you no where. You learn nothing if you do that.

Also, what happens when you're defensive, no one wants to give you an honest critique. Who wants to be told your critique doesn't matter or is wrong. So you post simple platitudes like, "Nice work."

Fair enough - sometimes people get defensive. BUT, sometimes they are also just trying to explain why something happened, which is a different thing than making excuses for it.

Just as some people get defensive about critique, some critiquers also get defensive if the OP says "Thanks, but I prefer my own crop" or processing or whatever. Does the poster have to agree with every critique? But if they don't, they sometimes get treated as ungrateful wretches instead of someone who has a right to have an opinion about their own photo.

It's a two-way street. The burden for effective C&C doesn't lie solely on one side or the other. People should be clear about what kind of feedback they are looking for when they post a picture. But when critiquing, people should also think about how they express themselves. It is possible, after all, to be direct and clear without being insulting. Being respectful even with harsh criticism is not the same as sugar-coating.