Surviving

[VidThreeNorth]

Yes, this is a serious topic. I'm hoping it won't get particularly "heavy". I see it as both general and specific. I hope to see discussion about "making money", "health", "nutrition", "where to live", how much to pay". "food -- aside from nutrition", "education", "entertainment". "clothes", yup, everything we need to survive.

 

[VidThreeNorth]

About Insect Repellents:
I'm reading the labels for "Off". This is NOT a complete reading. I'm just posting this much for discussion:

"Directions For Use: Apply sparingly, not under clothing and only when necessary. Reapply after 3 hour if necessary. TO APPLY TO FACE: Spray hands and apply avoiding eyes and mouth. Do not spay in in enclosed space. . . . [there is more that I'm leaving out]"

I think this contradicts some advertising. I'm sure I saw commercials where people applied it directly to skin, probably after swimming (implied). Am I wrong about that? If not, since it clearly includes directly applying to the "face" it can be presumed as not significantly dangerous if applied to skin in general. As I noted elsewhere, it is not labeled as a "poison" outwardly. If you peel off the outer sticker and read more details, it is IMPLIED to be poisonous at least to some degree. There are instructions regarding treating as a poison if ingested. I do EXPECT that some people will be particularly "sensitive" in the way of "allergic reaction."

Skin or Clothes?

Contrary to the instructions, I have been mainly applying it directly to my skin. I wear generally three sets of clothes per day: Pajamas (to sleep in), sweats (around home) and regular pant and shirts and over-clothes where I go out. That's a lot of spraying of things I'm not wearing. So that's why I generally spray my skin instead. My main exception is my socks. I change them daily, but really I only wear the same pair for the day, so I might as well spray the socks. I also spray my hair, which I think protects my scalp, and I spray my neck and ears. I did end up with bites on the back of my hands and wrists, so I'm paying more attention to those areas.

About the 3 hour protection: If you consider this, and the fact that it does not seem to leave a residue, it seems that it is entirely liquid from the start (not solids dissolved into a solution). So after the 3 hours, it has probably all evaporated from you skin and/or clothes.

About applying "only when necessary." How am I supposed to figure that out? Do I have to find a tick and ask it if it's going to bite me? So I guess I should wait till I get bitten and the say "gee, I guess I should have used it."

 

[atiqurs]

Interesting point about the labels, I’ve noticed that too. I’ve always just sprayed it directly on my skin without giving it a second thought. I never thought about spraying socks or hair, though; that’s a smart move. Might try that next time I’m out!

 

[smoke665]

Ahh the good old days when your Mom sprayed you down with DEET, bugs wouldn't come within a 100 yards.

We live in the country, dealing with mosquitoes, ticks, flies, etc is a daily thing. When I'm out I'm usually moving so mosquitoes aren't much of a problem, I'm careful about doing a quick scan for ticks after coming in. We've found 2 so far this year. If the insects are really bad I use one of the less toxic sprays like essential oils. Around the yards and decks I do use a wide spectrum chemical pesticide, on the decks we use mostly citronella candles, torches, etc.

At our lake place, we don't have many mosquitoes, thanks to our neighbor. He has a large Purple Martin Condo on the property line. Those birds are mosquitoe vacuums. I need to put one up at our house.

 

[VidThreeNorth]

. . .

I'm careful about doing a quick scan for ticks after coming in. We've found 2 so far this year.

I haven't seen one this year. I just got bitten a lot. They all got away.

If the insects are really bad I use one of the less toxic sprays like essential oils. Around the yards and decks I do use a wide spectrum chemical pesticide, on the decks we use mostly citronella candles, torches, etc.

Pesticides worry me now. The most common pesticide is actually a "nerve poison". It can kill your nervous system. I think Michael J. Fox was exposed to it when he was a young actor, and it was probably the cause of his Parkinson's deterioration.

At our lake place, we don't have many mosquitoes, thanks to our neighbor. He has a large Purple Martin Condo on the property line. Those birds are mosquitoe vacuums. I need to put one up at our house.

Aha! A "Martin"? I have been wondering about what kind of predators go after ticks specifically, but it's good to hear about something that goes after mosquitos. I doubt if they'll go after ticks though, since ticks seem to stay mainly on the ground. If you hear of something that specifically goes after ticks, that would be great!

 

[VidThreeNorth]

I've been keeping a loose watch on the Midwest flooding. This was posted to YouTube by "NBC News" Jul 12, 2025, [length about 2:09]

"Severe storms hit Midwest as flood risk returns to the South",
""​

As for the Texas flood news. The last I heard, there were over 100 dead and searches are still ongoing.

 

[smoke665]

If you hear of something that specifically goes after ticks, that would be great!

Opossums are at the top of the list, but free range chickens and guinea fowl are a close 2nd.

The most common pesticide is actually a "nerve poison". It can kill your nervous system. I

The problem is not so much the herbicide or the insecticide, it's the lack of training in their application. Back in the 70s we used Parathion, a highly toxic organophosphate nerve agent for control of Army Worms in Wheat. Due to the toxicity it was applied as a fine mist spray by air, that hung over the field like a fog. It was a fast acting nondiscriminant agent, that would kill anything in the field. However it was very short lived, and left no harmful residue. We had to have a license to buy and apply. Despite it being a good choice, it was ultimately banned. To many careless applicators making mistakes in the pre-mixing/application and to many dumb people walking out into a freshly sprayed field to observe it's effect on the the insects.

Some of the more popular over the counter insecticides today still contain organophosphates, but they're highly diluted. Unless you fail to follow label instructions there's little of chance of being harmed. Michael J. Fox has Parkinson's disease, so far the the only linked cause of the disease is genetic, there are anecdotal claims that eposure to certain toxins or other environmental factors may increase the risk of later Parkinson's disease. Those include not only pesticides, but illegal drug use, and well water, but no environmental factor has been proven yet.

 

[VidThreeNorth]

Cost of Deet Per Day

Looking at my bills, I had an old bottle about 1/4 full and I have been buying since then. The first bottle of "Off!" costed me $13.49 + HST (tax) $1.75 = $15.24 Cdn. That was at a drug store. The last bottle (same 174 ml) costed $9.99 + $1.30 tax = $11.29 Cdn. at a super market. I expect that the $11.30 / bottle will probably hold up for the season. It seems that a bottle lasts me about 5 days. I don't know how that'll hold up for the season. Over the period I was trying to decrease my usage balanced against getting fresh bites, (and the cost of iodine when I do get bitten), so a family of, say 4 - 6 people might expect to go through a bottle per day at around $11.30 Cdn. If you buy other things taxable, you might get to save a penny here and there. Anybody else cost it out?

 

[smoke665]

(and the cost of iodine when I do get bitten

I used to use iodine, but switched to this>

Works really well.

I haven't tried it yet (been wanting to). Despite all the rain, we haven't really mosquito or tick problem this year, but then I haven't been around the neighboring swamp on the back edge of the property much either. MOSQUITO REPELLENT BALM

Also DW claims this works, but I haven't tried it>

 

[VidThreeNorth]

Since I was sure I was going to need at least one more container of Insect Bite Repellent in the next couple of weeks, I looked around a bit and found "Ben's 30 Wilderness Formula" which says "Active Ingredient: DEET Plus Related Active Toluaimides 30.0%." This was in a 170g spray can, on sale %7.99 + 13% HST tax $1.04 = $9.03 (bought July 18/2025 -- apparent saving ~$2.26). I don't generally buy a compressed gas aerosol spray if I can avoid it. In the old days, they were generally propelled by a freon gas that did not break down easily. There is probably still a cloud of freon over the poles from years of this. But even without that problem, the cost of the can is probably higher and if you forget about it, say for a year, the pressure gas can leak out leaving active chemical in a can unusable. This happened to me sometimes with spray paints. Anyway, I bought it and decided to use it up first so it didn't get wasted. It smells a bit different, and it goes on with a greasy feeling. I guess it has a heavier oil added to keep it on the skin or clothes longer. It feels like suntan oil I guess. Hmm. I don't really like it. Oh well, if I use it up and don't get bitten, I'll be happy enough. But I'll probably go back to "Off!"

 

[VidThreeNorth]

Anyway, the Ben's was empty by July 24 5:10 AM, so it lasted 5-6 days. However, I was using some "Off!" at the same time, so maybe more like 5 days. The problem with the Ben's was that it was hard to get the spray to spray. It depended where on the top you pushed down. If you push at the front, nothing happens. Most of the time, instead of a spray, it came out in a weaker stream, and I ended up wiping it by hand over whatever skin I was trying to apply it to. I did put it on clothes for the backs of Tee-shirts and on my socks.
"DIRECTIONS: . . . Apply sparingly, not under clothes, and only when necessary. Dispense small quantity into hands and apply over all exposed skin, avoiding contact with eyes and mouth. Do not spray in enclosed spaces. Wash hands after applying. Use just enough to cover exposed skin. Reapply after approximately 6 hours if necessary. PRECAUTIONS: . . . . " (I'll continue this later.)

This is Very different from "Off!". The oily component seems to be intended to hold the DEET in solution and slow down its evaporation. I applied it more than they recommended. Essentially, I used it like "Off!" but a bit less frequently. Their instructions to put it ON SKIN and NOT clothes and NOT UNDER clothes, means it won't protect your legs or most of your body. This won't work. Ticks don't just go after your face. Also, washing my hands after apply the spray would mean my hands would have been unprotected, and yes, I did get bitten on my hands before I started using these repellents.
Another matter is that the can is slippery if you get it on your hands. This is partly why I had difficulty controlling the spraying. I found that wrapping the can with some "masking tape" made it usable, but I could not read the instructions (which is worth re-reading occasionally).
I guess that if I had a combination of "Ben's 30" and "Off!" pump spray and used them both as directed, I'd be well protected and it might save me money, but that's getting really complicated.

 

[VidThreeNorth]

Dental Floss:

I was taught to floss when I was young, and I still have some teeth -- less than half a mouthful, but enough that I actually still chew food, and no, I have not got dentures yet. Anyway, I never actually knew how much floss I used. I just bought it when I thought I was running low. Yesterday, for the first time, I measured the floss I was using. The piece I measured was about 20". It's probably not consistent, but that's about 1.5 ft (18"). I remember Butler selling rolls of floss that were supposed to be cut at what they felt was a good length, and what they were suggesting was actually too short. Using their suggested length was awkward. But if I buy it by the yard, say a roll of 180 yards (yes, it is sold in this size), that's about 360 days worth. So I would expect that size roll to last a bit less than a year. If I remember, I'll post a price later (next time I buy it).

 

[Rickbb]

Off is basically DEET, (N,N-Diethyl-meta-toluamide), it will melt plastic and strip paint, so there's that.

It does do a great job of keeping bugs off though. It's been around for a very long time and is still the go to for real protection.

The troops in 'Nam used it, a lot. It can be used on the skin or on clothes. I used to get it in the small bottles, 100% strength, and just a drop or two in the palm to cover my whole leg or arm. Lasted forever. If you have Army Surplus stores where you are, check them out to see if they have any. It would have to be much cheaper than the aerosol cans of brand name that is at best 49% DEET.

After applying it, I'd wash my hands but just soap the palms to keep the back of the hand from getting bitten.

As for chiggers, my dad would use powered sulfur, (back when you could get it at "real" drug stores). He would roll up his pants a bit and put some in the rolled-up cuff part, or on his socks. Claimed it worked well.

You can also put up bat boxes to attract and keep bats local. It's claimed they eat their weight in mosquitos every night. And bats are threatened anyway so they need help.

 

[Rickbb]

....... but no environmental factor has been proven yet.

Unfortunately, studies have shown that bees and other species are very adversely affected by the most widely used pesticides today, called neonicotinoids. In fact, the EU has banned 3 of the 5 types of them and France has banned all types of neonicotinoids; here are a few links.

France bans bee-killing insecticides

Effects of Neonicotinoids on Humans and Bees

Even birds are in decline due to their use.

Declines in insectivorous birds are associated with high neonicotinoid concentrations | Nature

And now in some very large and long-term studies in the UK are showing that even fertilizers are adversely harming bees.

Synthetic fertilizers alter floral biophysical cues and bumblebee foraging behavior | PNAS Nexus | Oxford Academic