Switch from Canon 450d EOS. Which mirrorless to consider.

[lbsu]

Hi everyone. I've been with my canon 450 d paired with tamron 17-50 2.8 for 10 years. Now I feel time has come to switch to something better. I was thinking about full frame but the dslrs are so heavy and expensive as well, although I am prepared for a £2000 budget for all. The only light full frames are Sony 7 generation. I read a lot of reviews about A7ii. There Is something which I am not particularly happy about or I am uncertain. For example, since it became A7ii it added weight due to ibis. Together with good zeiss glass it's gona again come to just under a kilo which even more than I carry now. Also from the reviews I am not sure if a7ii is great for landscapes - my favourite area. Alternatively, I read a lot about Fuji, Olympus and Panasonic. But again I am not sure if yet another APS C sensor or micro 4/3 would make me a difference compared to my current old canon 450d. Should I switch at all then?
Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

 

[jaomul]

What exactly do you want to improve with your new camera?

 

[lbsu]

What exactly do you want to improve with your new camera?

Image quality first. Second - focus. My canon with tamron shoots the way the faces are always out of focus. When I do manually it is still out of focus. I think this is just due to diccoordination between cannon and tamron since I dropped the camera several years ago.

 

[jaomul]

I had few older Canon cameras. I now have Nikon and m4/3rds.

I would say that the 450d is a very good camera but almost any newer purchase will be an improvement.

The m4/3 cameras focus almost instantly for static subject. Moving subjects is a different matter. Image quality is for the most part excellent but it is a little more difficult to achieve shallow dof.

To be honest, if your tamron lens is ok I'd look at a Canon 70d. Not everyone needs full frame. The 70d will offer better autofocus, more megapixels, better iso performance, video, touchscreen and you'll be somewhat familiar with the menus.

 

[lbsu]

Thank you jaomul

I read some reviews on cannon 70d. Sounds a very good cam. But it's still dslr and hence heavy. My obsession now is mirrorless I do not know why. May be I am wrong and should stick with dslr.

 

[beagle100]

Thank you jaomul

I read some reviews on cannon 70d. Sounds a very good cam. But it's still dslr and hence heavy. My obsession now is mirrorless I do not know why. May be I am wrong and should stick with dslr.

maybe it's just an obsession. the newer cameras have more megapixels and other features but image quality ....

these where shot with a 10 year old Canon 450D digital Rebel XSi

 

[Ron Evers]

And these were shot with a M4/3 Olympus E- M5.

 

[Usul]

Ron Evers and beagle100 showed photos of static objects in very goo lighting conditions in my opinion with such conditions EVERY modern (and not very old) DSLR or mirrorles gives good results. The differense is getting noticeable when eather light is poor or subject is moving. Bigger sensor means better quality and bigger lenses thus more weight . If you want save some weight you should look at m4/3 or APS-C mirrorles.

 

[lbsu]

Very nice pictures from both although Olympus ones do not show enough shallow dof.
And why '...but image quality...' Don't you think that over 10 years the sensors changed and can now provide a much better IQ?

 

[jaomul]

If you need fullframe mirrorless Sony is probably your only option. If apc-s is good enough look at the Sony a6000 and Fufi xt1 and or x10. These are not the only options but most other options seem bit bigger, and at least if you research these the articles may point other options.

Sensor tech has definetely changed. Older cameras can still give fab photos. Newer tech allows these photos in more challenging conditions

 

[Usul]

Very nice pictures from both although Olympus ones do not show enough shallow dof.
And why '...but image quality...' Don't you think that over 10 years the sensors changed and can now provide a much better IQ?

I guess it's refering to my post.
IQ is much better now but one can't see much difference on the photos taken in good condtions and then resized. I had D90 (2008) and now I have D7100 (2013) so I can compare them. In low light or in scenes with high contrast of course D7100 has noticeable advantages.

 

[jaomul]

However, in not so good conditions, or where you don't resize, or if you print big, (or if you pixel peep )newer tech has the edge

 

[sashbar]

Sounds a very good cam. But it's still dslr and hence heavy. My obsession now is mirrorless I do not know why. May be I am wrong and should stick with dslr.

Modern APS-C sensor gives you a better image quality and low light performance than a 10 y.o. pro grade Full Frame camera.

If your obsession is a Mirrorless camera, and you are looking for higher image quality, smallish size and weight, then FUJI X system would be a very sensible choice. It will give you a clean, working ISO 6400 and ability to compensate exposure errors, highlight and shadow recovery beyond your dreams with your old Canon. Most importantly it will give you a pro quality APS-C glass line that you will not find with a DSLR, unless you go for a heavy and bulky pro grade full frame glass.

You said your priority after IQ is focus. If it is the fastest focus, you would be better with a DSLR. If it is a more precise focus, then a mirrorless has an edge, because it simply has no back or forth focus problems due to its design. It has no focus mirror and needs no calibration, it is focusing precisely on the sensor. In that respect its focus is always spot on even with a wide open f/1,2 lense. You will not get it even with a pro DSLR camera. But a good modern DSLR will give you a much faster focus in low light.

With your £2,000 you will be able to get a camera with a kit 18-55 zoom (which is not really a kit, it is a quality lense and comes highly recommended) plus a couple of used primes from eBay.

Just to give you an idea of a modern APS-C sensor - here is a snapshot in a very dark room with FUJI X-T1 and FUJI 18-55 kit lense, ISO 25600, f/4, 1/9 sec, straight out of the camera JPEG with no additional post processing, apart from reducing its size.

And here is the same shot with exposure compensation by 1 stop and no other post processing.

As I said this is just a JPEG snaphot, handheld, with an automatic in-camera noise reduction. You can get a better image quality with ISO 25600 if you shoot RAW and use post processing with some good modern convertor like CaptureOne Pro and a dedicated noise reduction engine like Topaz.
You may as well look at this site to get an idea of what FUJI X cameras are capable of. Lots of pros shoot FUJI these days.

Now, why do you need a full frame?

 

[Ron Evers]

Very nice pictures from both although Olympus ones do not show enough shallow dof.

In both cases the subject is close to the background & in the second pic the lens was stopped down from maximum aperture.


And why '...but image quality...' Don't you think that over 10 years the sensors changed and can now provide a much better IQ?

 

[Ron Evers]

Some will say you cannot use m4/3 for action shots - I beg to differ.