The Coffee House

[bribrius]

I had to re-educate my way of thinking and shooting back to my film days. Now I have to shoot in an anticipatory methodology. I have to see the shoot before it happens, I have to get into position with enough time to focus and wait for the peak of action

Isn't THAT the skill of photography? Any dam fool can point the camera and press the shutter. To see an image before it happens, to put yourself in the proper place, to set the camera up to capture your vision... those are skills that require practice, and experience.

However, in many ways those processes are the same that make for good drivers, and good tradespeople, and safe workers: be aware of the surroundings and context, anticipate the actions of those around you, and the things THEY will react to, and place yourself where the proper result will be achieved.

Yes and no. It depends on the genre, those skills always come to play, but in some genres they are more important than in others. In Street, for example, speed is a very valuable asset, sometimes more valuable to react than to anticipate ... more valuable to shoot than get into position ... waiting for peak of action in landscape can be tedious in landscape, usually time of day and lighting is more important than peak of action.

The are many skills of photography. Each skill's importance to a particular shot is determined by the content of the shot. Example, in most of Ansel Adams photographs, composition is a paramount factor in creating the exceptional image (yes, exposure and processing skill are fundamentally important as well, but were not addressing that end of the photographic spectrum) ... as opposed to Eddie Adams Pulitzer award winning shot of the ARVN general shooting the VC suspect in the streets of Saigon. That shot and genre, composition and lighting is of little concern, it is all about timing and the peak of action.

To an Ansel Adams type of photographer, shooting Street is more of "any damn [sic] fool can point the camera and press the shutter" ... and vice versa, ad infinitum between genres.

You made a general remark, which I actually do agree with, but the degree of importance to shooting in an anticipatory fashion as opposed to a reactionary fashion is dependant upon the the genre, the particular shot and the equipment being used. Even if I was using a slow camera like the XP1, I would have shot many many more images, different angles, different exposures, different lenses knowing that I can cull out the best in post. With only 12 frames per roll, I have to mentally perform all that culling before I release the shutter.

I "used to" think that street shooting is mostly reactionary, but a very good street shooter explained to me the amount of preparation he did/does to make his images work. He'd scout out an area, see where the shadows were, see the kind of people and patterns that were there, figure out where he'd have to be to get the right background, then wait for the opportunity to show up. Another photographer whose work is featured almost daily in our local papers told me that despite the appearance that his shots are "grab shots", there's quite a bit of planning that he does between the time he learns about an "event", and when he gets to shoot it. The "event" could be an accident, a fire, a celebrity sighting, etc. You've been a press photographer, and I'm sure you didn't start thinking about what or how you would shoot only after you go to the place. To me, that was the major revelation, that even in reactive shooting situations, there's quite a bit of stuff that gets thought about prior to pressing that shutter.

I'm certainly not disagreeing with your point that each genre has its own skill set and requirements, but wanted to emphasize that anticipation, previsualization, and preparation are just as important in reactionary situations as with the ones where you have the time to set things up. I know that my own keeper rate improves when I take the time to think about the shot, what I'm trying to do, and how I intend to go about capturing it.

I think we're basically on the same page, yes every image requires anticipation, previsualization and preparation ... I think my message was meant to be more of a measurement of degree than of omission.

naaa. in this day and age someone could click off fifty thousand images on auto and somewhere in there come up with ten amazing photos.

 

[Gary A.]

I will also admit tht I used to drink PBRs, back in the day. But then, they weren't "hip," more redneck.

I used to drink PBR in college. There was a bar in Long Beach, Joe Jost, been around since the 1920's and has the dust to prove it. For a few bucks, something like $3.50, you could get a sausage sandwich (hot dog), a sliced pickle, a fistful of pretzels and an ice cold schooner of PBR. Those were the days.

Mary Lou buys PBR to kill slugs.

 

[jsecordphoto]

1 good photo for every 5,000 taken....I would pick up a new hobby.

 

[pgriz]

Bribrius, who has the time to work through 50,000 images to find the 10 winners?

 

[bribrius]

Bribrius, who has the time to work through 50,000 images to find the 10 winners?

not me that is for sure. i do think between digital being so more forgiving and the technology in cameras making even auto shots pretty damn good that a lot of the photography skills are fairly easily ignored by some, and they can still turn the occasional pretty damn good image amongst all the crap.

 

[snowbear121 52]

Yo, Lenny! If it ever comes up, don't try this with Buzz, or let him try it with you!
Buildings evacuated after marriage proposal flop - WTOP.com

 

[Gary A.]

I had to re-educate my way of thinking and shooting back to my film days. Now I have to shoot in an anticipatory methodology. I have to see the shoot before it happens, I have to get into position with enough time to focus and wait for the peak of action

Isn't THAT the skill of photography? Any dam fool can point the camera and press the shutter. To see an image before it happens, to put yourself in the proper place, to set the camera up to capture your vision... those are skills that require practice, and experience.

However, in many ways those processes are the same that make for good drivers, and good tradespeople, and safe workers: be aware of the surroundings and context, anticipate the actions of those around you, and the things THEY will react to, and place yourself where the proper result will be achieved.

Yes and no. It depends on the genre, those skills always come to play, but in some genres they are more important than in others. In Street, for example, speed is a very valuable asset, sometimes more valuable to react than to anticipate ... more valuable to shoot than get into position ... waiting for peak of action in landscape can be tedious in landscape, usually time of day and lighting is more important than peak of action.

The are many skills of photography. Each skill's importance to a particular shot is determined by the content of the shot. Example, in most of Ansel Adams photographs, composition is a paramount factor in creating the exceptional image (yes, exposure and processing skill are fundamentally important as well, but were not addressing that end of the photographic spectrum) ... as opposed to Eddie Adams Pulitzer award winning shot of the ARVN general shooting the VC suspect in the streets of Saigon. That shot and genre, composition and lighting is of little concern, it is all about timing and the peak of action.

To an Ansel Adams type of photographer, shooting Street is more of "any damn [sic] fool can point the camera and press the shutter" ... and vice versa, ad infinitum between genres.

You made a general remark, which I actually do agree with, but the degree of importance to shooting in an anticipatory fashion as opposed to a reactionary fashion is dependant upon the the genre, the particular shot and the equipment being used. Even if I was using a slow camera like the XP1, I would have shot many many more images, different angles, different exposures, different lenses knowing that I can cull out the best in post. With only 12 frames per roll, I have to mentally perform all that culling before I release the shutter.

I "used to" think that street shooting is mostly reactionary, but a very good street shooter explained to me the amount of preparation he did/does to make his images work. He'd scout out an area, see where the shadows were, see the kind of people and patterns that were there, figure out where he'd have to be to get the right background, then wait for the opportunity to show up. Another photographer whose work is featured almost daily in our local papers told me that despite the appearance that his shots are "grab shots", there's quite a bit of planning that he does between the time he learns about an "event", and when he gets to shoot it. The "event" could be an accident, a fire, a celebrity sighting, etc. You've been a press photographer, and I'm sure you didn't start thinking about what or how you would shoot only after you go to the place. To me, that was the major revelation, that even in reactive shooting situations, there's quite a bit of stuff that gets thought about prior to pressing that shutter.

I'm certainly not disagreeing with your point that each genre has its own skill set and requirements, but wanted to emphasize that anticipation, previsualization, and preparation are just as important in reactionary situations as with the ones where you have the time to set things up. I know that my own keeper rate improves when I take the time to think about the shot, what I'm trying to do, and how I intend to go about capturing it.

I think we're basically on the same page, yes every image requires anticipation, previsualization and preparation ... I think my message was meant to be more of a measurement of degree than of omission.

naaa. in this day and age someone could click off fifty thousand images on auto and somewhere in there come up with ten amazing photos.

Is that any better than clicking off ten images and ending up ten amazing images? Sure, a lot less post processing but you end up in the same place.

I was shooting President Ford. We were all lined up in our designated press area. Every time the President flinched the motordrives opened up. Except the guy next to me. He was from Time/Life. He was using a tripod and a manually advanced Nikon. For every ten of my frames, he went click. He watched and waited, he wasn't faked by the flinches or sneezes, every frame was probably equal to the best anybody was shooting. I was impressed with the guy. Not enough to change my way of shooting, but enough to still remember him.

 

[bribrius]

1 good photo for every 5,000 taken....I would pick up a new hobby.

just one of those things. you look through someones images on facebook or somewhere, crap, crap, crap, soso, crap cap. so so.

And then you come across this one particular image and you are like wth? how did they pull that off?

 

[limr35 4]

Meh, just shoot less, man! Just because you can shoot 5,000 shots in an hour doesn't mean you have to. If you can't force yourself to stop hitting the shutter, then carry a super small SD card so you know you're going to run out of space soon.

Yo, Lenny! If it ever comes up, don't try this with Buzz, or let him try it with you!
Buildings evacuated after marriage proposal flop - WTOP.com

Saw that earlier - pretty damn funny! Luckily, both of us have more sense than that

 

[Rick50]

I have a 4x5 with lens I would easily sell. I haven't used it in years.

how much $ is easy? lol

Let me think about it. But I will sell cheap.....

 

[minicoop1985]

Evening, hosers. The ol spray and pray, eh? i've done that with a Nikon F before because I can.

 

[NancyMoranG]

Morning, almost done with my coffee. Off to the accountants office at 10. Hubby always makes sure we are all set for April and doing the right moves now.
Maybe get to the library and actually post a photo!
Boy, there's A LOT of Canon gear for sale on the forum! Maybe some coming over to the dark side next year?
Nancy

 

[limr35 4]

Morning, hosers.

Coffee. Yum.

Last night I made two kinds of candied nuts that I give out at school this week. Not to a lot of people - for the bosses at work, I usually find some cheap receptacle (there's 6 of them and I am poor) and fill them with the nuts and hand one to each boss. Well, 5 bosses and one receptionist because they always forget her and it's pretty shitty of them. This year it's mismatched "antique" teacups.

Today I give the final exam to both classes so I don't have to actually teach - just make sure they're not cheating. So that means I hope some of you hosers will keep me company around here while I'm proctoring

 

[KenC]

Oh, God, proctoring! Probably the worst thing about teaching and there are some pretty bad things about it. I haven't taught in a long while so when I last did this I didn't have any kind of phone or other internet device to keep me amused.

 

[Designer]

.. I hope some of you hosers will keep me company around here while I'm proctoring

Probably not me. I just decided yesterday that I need to demolish one more wall before I can get into rebuilding.