The new Nikon Z-Mount Cameras- who is in?

[Destin]

Those z mount lenses look cheap as heck. That is a big turn off to me.

I don’t know if they look cheap to me, but they certainly don’t look like a typical Nikon product. They have a very polished look reminiscent of something song or Tamron would put out.

My bigger problem is the price. $700 for a 50 1.8?

 

[Designer]

I don't know why so many people were expecting a professional camera.

Was it the hype?

Lots of hype before any concrete specifications were announced led many people to ASSUME it was going to be a "professional grade" camera system.

What the new "Z" system is, in fact, is a "prosumer" grade system.

We will have to wait a while before we see any actual professional body using the Z mount.

 

[mrca]

Who made the sensor. Someone told me last week there has been recent news that Tower Jazz was not the manufacturer of the 850 sensor but nikon did themselves. Is nikon still buying sensors from Sony that they are obviously going head to head with on mirrorless?

 

[greybeard]

I don't know why so many people were expecting a professional camera.

Was it the hype?

Lots of hype before any concrete specifications were announced led many people to ASSUME it was going to be a "professional grade" camera system.

What the new "Z" system is, in fact, is a "prosumer" grade system.

We will have to wait a while before we see any actual professional body using the Z mount.

Yes, it is "prosumer" grade in the sense that the D850/D750 are also "prosumer".

 

[Designer]

Yes, it is "prosumer" grade in the sense that the D850/D750 are also "prosumer".

As you wish.

The new "Z" cameras cannot compete with the D850, and if the D750 was as good as it should have been, then not that one, either.

IMO

 

[Derrel]

I agree that the D 800 series models are all "prosumer" type bodies--and excellent ones at that. For decades the Nikon that many people want to shoot has been a high-end prosumer camera. The Nikon FE-2 was a better camera than the F3, in many ways. I owned both at the same time, and preferred the FE-2 for a lot of assignments. The Nikon D4 was the pro model when the D 800 was current, and the D 800 is a vastly better camera in some ways, but it's not as rugged and probably will not last as long as the D4.

 

[Derrel]

One has to ask how can a pro model like the D4 with 16 million pixels be "pro", when the high end amateur camera (the D 800) had 36 million pixels, and better image quality?

 

[mrca]

850 is "prosumer?" It dusts the flagships in most areas. Just took a look at the mirroless and looks like the same sensor. That sensor blows me away. Did a studio shoot with it and zeiss lenses and the combination is amazing. I like the built in vr. Does it work with older lenses. Lens useability is more important to me than any thing I see in it different than the 850. Same price as 850 with battery pack. Like many of the older shooters, I wasn't adverse to leaving film after 25 years and I have no need to have a pentaprism. So long as it works for my shooting. I see folks talking about wysiwyg. Yeah, if you shoot jpeg. I expect it is a jpeg and the clipping points are not precisely what you have. Just looked at specs, 850 is 12 ounces heavier plus add battery pack probably a lb or so difference. So much for a weight argument. Lenses may be lighter. I don't see a vertical grip available at least yet. That's a deal breaker for me immediately.

 

[Derrel]

Yes, the D850 is a prosumer camera....a prosumer body is not referring to the quality of the camera: it refers to the BUYER the camera is aimed at. I figured everybody knew that. The prosumer is the BUYER. PRO-fessional con-SUMER, ergo "prosumer".

According to Forbes magazine, prosumers are also, today, in 2018, considered to be __product and brand advocates__.
The original meaning of the word prosumer is the buyer who constantly buys the latest,greatest thing on the market. The prosumer wants the highest-rated specifications...the most megapixels, the latest technical advances, the most-sophisticated features and the widest feature set.

Definiton:
pro·sum·er
prōˈso͞omər/
noun

1. 1.
   an amateur who purchases equipment with quality or features suitable for professional use.
   "the magazine is aimed at the prosumer who uses a $10,000 camera to make home movies of his dog.
   
   ******
   
   A lot of people get butt-hurt when their favorite camera is described as a prosumer model, but there's the flagship level cameras from Canon and Nikon, priced in the $8,000 to $5,000 range historically, and there are the high-end consumer AKA prosumer cameras, at around $3499 to $2900 or so at introduction.
   
   The term prosumer means something. It's not a bad thing. The prosumer wants ALL of the latest bells and whistles,and he or she wants to buy whatever is new, exciting, and which exemplifies the latest technology and latest efforts of the brand. The professional consumer, the prosumer, will buy a new item as soon as it is available, and will often advocate and talk about their purchase on-line and to others, and will try to influence other people to see the value of their latest equipment purchase.
   
   Working professionals, now a very small minority in the photo world, often have MUCH less-fancy, more-outdated, and often beat-up and worn equipment that they know how to use, and which the typical prosumer would describe as obsolescent, outdated, or old-style. Note that Nikon flagship cameras now LAG behind the prosumer, high-end enthusiast, and entry-level models in megapixel counts. One group values bragging rights much more so than the other group.
   
   The Nikon D3s is still a fairly popular camera with working photojournalists, as is the now-outdated D4 and D4s pair, and the D5 is the current flagship. The D800,D810 series, and the D850 are all cameras aimed at "prosumers": both the professional consumer/constant upgraders, and the people who advocate for the company, and the brand, and the model, on-line.
   
   This definiton of prosumer, the band-advocate type of prosumer, has been around for almost a decade.The Shift from CONsumers to PROsumers
   
   See this Forbes article from 2010, describing what a prosumer does:
   
   "The term “prosumer” has transformed from meaning “professional consumer” to meaning “product and brand advocate.” Rather than simply “consuming” products, people are becoming the voices of those products and significantly impacting the success or failure of companies, products, and brands, particularly through their involvement on the social web."
   
   Again..."prosumer" is not a put-down...it's a very specific thing. The prosumer market segment is like free advertising, and free on-line promotion. Now that YouTube has become a huge marketing field world-wide, the camera makers recognize the need to get prosumers to make advocacy videos, as well as to blog about their prosumer-oriented equipment. The camera makers design and sell cameras for prosumers, and professionals, and serious amateurs,as well as for everybody in-between.

 

[pixmedic]

the "professional" models for nikon and canon have always been well defined and separated from the other models.
the term "prosumer" while not new, has only semi recently been adopted (and even hyped) by camera companies.
Nikons PRO line has always been single digit. D3, D4, D5...weather sealed, built in vertical grip, more metal in the chassis, higher FPS, etc etc.
these cameras were specifically aimed at professional photographers that actually NEEDED those features (not just WANT them)
the more consumer based models have traditionally lacked many of those features. at some point over the years the camera companies have recognized
the growing number of more serious enthusiasts and have designed and marketed some higher end cameras to cater to that group, such as the D800 series, and even the D750/D500. these are not really "pro" cameras though, if only in the sense that they simply are not designed and made to the same specs as cameras like the D5. if you look at the starting price of the single digit nikon PRO bodies compared to the others, you can see the difference. on ebay right now you can get a new D850 for ~$3k+, while a new D5 will set you back ~$5k for a 20 MP camera vs a 45 mp camera.

 

[Peeb]

OP now edited to show a review that says the Z7 is SPECTACULAR, and another review that says that the Z7 FAILS BADLY.

My take (still base solely on what I have read) is that Nikon finally arrived to market (thank goodness), but they started development on this too late, aimed towards the immediate past instead of the immediate future, and failed to properly identify their customer (or more likely crippled this release to save DSLR sales).

Too late: the specs seem to have targeted sony from one generation ago. Maybe a firmware update can bump things along, who knows.

Bad customer ID- focusing on small/light at the expense of 2 cards was folly. Were you trying to EXCLUDE professional shooters and serious amateurs? You will never see one of theses cameras at a wedding shoot. The rationale was that small-body was more important than 2 slots. Really? That's who is dropping $3,400 on a camera- vacation shooters?

Does that mean I'm OUT? Not yet. I can't forgive the omission of a backup card for critical shots, but the backwards compatibility of F-mount lenses is certainly a powerful lever. I can't help but think that my money is better spent on a D750 instead of the Z6; it is CLEARLY better spent on the D850 instead of the Z7.

Move me down from 'probably' to 'maybe'- but the purchase would be with reservations (and only on sale). I would have gladly dropped 2K on a mirrorless D750 with IBIS, and I was CONSIDERING dropping 3.4K if I was presented a mirrorless D850 with IBIS. I was presented with neither. It appears that Nikon was actually afraid of folks like me, so they crippled these Z cameras with one slot to be sure that the DSLR sale were not affected.

And that makes me sad- I really REALLY wanted to love these cameras...

 

[greybeard]

Well, now that we have clarified the professional vs prosumer issue, back to these new cameras.

A lot will depend on how things look through the eye level finder. I have a Sony A6000 and in a darkened room I love it because it adjusts brightness automatically and keeps things looking bright enough. But, out of doors in bright sunlight it looks dull and flat (imho) compared to an optical finder. Hopefully the new Z6-Z7 eye level finder will look more natural out of doors.

Looks like the lens adapter will work with AF-S only so any screw drive AF-AF.D lenses will be relegated to manual focus only.

I am not familiar with the XQD card? What advantage does it have over the 50 or so SD cards I have laying around?

What does this new D6-D7 offer that would make me want to dump my D750?

 

[Peeb]

I don't know why so many people were expecting a professional camera.

Was it the hype?

Lots of hype before any concrete specifications were announced led many people to ASSUME it was going to be a "professional grade" camera system.

What the new "Z" system is, in fact, is a "prosumer" grade system.

We will have to wait a while before we see any actual professional body using the Z mount.

Prosumer cameras have 2 slots. Period.

 

[Peeb]

Yes, the D850 is a prosumer camera....a prosumer body is not referring to the quality of the camera: it refers to the BUYER the camera is aimed at. I figured everybody knew that. The prosumer is the BUYER. PRO-fessional con-SUMER, ergo "prosumer".

According to Forbes magazine, prosumers are also, today, in 2018, considered to be __product and brand advocates__.
The original meaning of the word prosumer is the buyer who constantly buys the latest,greatest thing on the market. The prosumer wants the highest-rated specifications...the most megapixels, the latest technical advances, the most-sophisticated features and the widest feature set.

Definiton:
pro·sum·er
prōˈso͞omər/
noun

1. 1.
   an amateur who purchases equipment with quality or features suitable for professional use.
   "the magazine is aimed at the prosumer who uses a $10,000 camera to make home movies of his dog.
   
   ******
   
   A lot of people get butt-hurt when their favorite camera is described as a prosumer model, but there's the flagship level cameras from Canon and Nikon, priced in the $8,000 to $5,000 range historically, and there are the high-end consumer AKA prosumer cameras, at around $3499 to $2900 or so at introduction.
   
   The term prosumer means something. It's not a bad thing. The prosumer wants ALL of the latest bells and whistles,and he or she wants to buy whatever is new, exciting, and which exemplifies the latest technology and latest efforts of the brand. The professional consumer, the prosumer, will buy a new item as soon as it is available, and will often advocate and talk about their purchase on-line and to others, and will try to influence other people to see the value of their latest equipment purchase.
   
   Working professionals, now a very small minority in the photo world, often have MUCH less-fancy, more-outdated, and often beat-up and worn equipment that they know how to use, and which the typical prosumer would describe as obsolescent, outdated, or old-style. Note that Nikon flagship cameras now LAG behind the prosumer, high-end enthusiast, and entry-level models in megapixel counts. One group values bragging rights much more so than the other group.
   
   The Nikon D3s is still a fairly popular camera with working photojournalists, as is the now-outdated D4 and D4s pair, and the D5 is the current flagship. The D800,D810 series, and the D850 are all cameras aimed at "prosumers": both the professional consumer/constant upgraders, and the people who advocate for the company, and the brand, and the model, on-line.
   
   This definiton of prosumer, the band-advocate type of prosumer, has been around for almost a decade.The Shift from CONsumers to PROsumers
   
   See this Forbes article from 2010, describing what a prosumer does:
   
   "The term “prosumer” has transformed from meaning “professional consumer” to meaning “product and brand advocate.” Rather than simply “consuming” products, people are becoming the voices of those products and significantly impacting the success or failure of companies, products, and brands, particularly through their involvement on the social web."
   
   Again..."prosumer" is not a put-down...it's a very specific thing. The prosumer market segment is like free advertising, and free on-line promotion. Now that YouTube has become a huge marketing field world-wide, the camera makers recognize the need to get prosumers to make advocacy videos, as well as to blog about their prosumer-oriented equipment. The camera makers design and sell cameras for prosumers, and professionals, and serious amateurs,as well as for everybody in-between.

The Nikon FM was legendary. And prosumer. It is not a put-down to be a prosumer camera. I agree.

 

[Destin]

I don't know why so many people were expecting a professional camera.

Was it the hype?

Lots of hype before any concrete specifications were announced led many people to ASSUME it was going to be a "professional grade" camera system.

What the new "Z" system is, in fact, is a "prosumer" grade system.

We will have to wait a while before we see any actual professional body using the Z mount.

Prosumer cameras have 2 slots. Period.

Eh, I agree to a point. Photographers used single card slots for a lot of years for professional work. It wasn’t until the D7000 came out that prosumer camera’s started seeing dual card slots.

Did film cameras have a backup roll of film?

I’ve personally never had a card go bad. I don’t know anyone personally who has.

Anecdotally it seems quite rare. I would absolutely prefer to have two card slots, but that wouldn’t be enough to turn me away from these bodies if they had enough other good features.