This is the beginner's forum right?

[Boomn4x4]

[
I think you just justified why people should treat the internet as REAL LIFE. The consequences of acting otherwise....well, you just listed them

By the way, sometime it's hard to keep the two personna separate. Someday, the internet behavior will get mixed in with real life, then you'll find out what a b!tch that will be. But, whatever. I don't know you, and you don't know me. Carry on.

... are you suggesting that there is nothing in your life that you SHOULD be doing, but you aren't?

People don't alway do as they should... and there is no way to change that.

 

[Overread]

hehe nope - both much closer to the big spo..er... London (well ok not that close, but southern wildlife centre meets)

 

[Rosshole]

So your goal is to be rude and abrasive because this is fake?

interesting...

No, not at all.... It has nothing to do with how I carry myself... it has everything to do with what I take out of it.

So you take nothing out of this forum and don't try to contribute anything because it is fake?

 

[ghpham]

[
I think you just justified why people should treat the internet as REAL LIFE. The consequences of acting otherwise....well, you just listed them

By the way, sometime it's hard to keep the two personna separate. Someday, the internet behavior will get mixed in with real life, then you'll find out what a b!tch that will be. But, whatever. I don't know you, and you don't know me. Carry on.

... are you suggesting that there is nothing in your life that you SHOULD be doing, but you aren't?

People don't alway do as they should... and there is no way to change that.

No. I am saying that people are acting on the internet like they wouldn't otherwise in real life. They believe the anominity of the internet "protects" them, but it does not. You know, like posting themselves beating someone to a pulp thinking noone will find out, only to have the authorities knocking on their door. Thus, many of them get in trouble because they don't think they would get caught. If people insists on being rude on the net, whatever floats their boat. Do that long enough and it will get carry over in real life, and then the trouble begins.

No, there is no way for me to change how people behave on the internet. But that does not mean I condone the behavior and tell people to get "thick skin".

 

[Boomn4x4]

So your goal is to be rude and abrasive because this is fake?

interesting...

No, not at all.... It has nothing to do with how I carry myself... it has everything to do with what I take out of it.

So you take nothing out of this forum and don't try to contribute anything because it is fake?

No, not at all. I take what I get out of this forum with a grain of salt... Some may be good, some may be bad, some may be out right lies, some may have the slightest clue what they are talking about. I don't expect everything I come across as the information I am looking for or the answers to my questions. If I don't agree with it, I ignore it. If it offends me, I ignore it. If it makes sense, I'll probe deeper into it.

At the same time... my contributions are simply that. I put my $0.02 in like everyone else does. If you get something out of it, great. If you are offended by it, that's fine too. If you want me to go to Hell because of it, more power to you.

I take the Internet for what its worth, and I expect people to do the same.

 

[Boomn4x4]

No. I am saying that people are acting on the internet like they wouldn't otherwise in real life. They believe the anominity of the internet "protects" them, but it does not. You know, like posting themselves beating someone to a pulp thinking noone will find out, only to have the authorities knocking on their door. Thus, many of them get in trouble because they don't think they would get caught. If people insists on being rude on the net, whatever floats their boat. Do that long enough and it will get carry over in real life, and then the trouble begins.

No, there is no way for me to change how people behave on the internet. But that does not mean I condone the behavior and tell people to get "thick skin".

I agree 100%... and that is right along with my point. But I think you are going to an extreme here and getting off base. This thread is about people being overly critical...in some cases unhelpful. This isn't about people being destructive or abusive.

The anominity here is not about hiding behind a screen... its about the truth coming out. Being behind a computer screen is no differnt that having a few drinks to lower you inhabitions, I get a couple glasses of wine into my wife and "no" becomes "now"... is there anything wrong with that? This is what I'm talking about. It seems like what you are talking about is people have A LOT of drinks and becoming a total asshat.

 

[ghpham]

No. I am saying that people are acting on the internet like they wouldn't otherwise in real life. They believe the anominity of the internet "protects" them, but it does not. You know, like posting themselves beating someone to a pulp thinking noone will find out, only to have the authorities knocking on their door. Thus, many of them get in trouble because they don't think they would get caught. If people insists on being rude on the net, whatever floats their boat. Do that long enough and it will get carry over in real life, and then the trouble begins.

No, there is no way for me to change how people behave on the internet. But that does not mean I condone the behavior and tell people to get "thick skin".

I agree 100%... and that is right along with my point. But I think you are going to an extreme here and getting off base. This thread is about people being overly critical...in some cases unhelpful. This isn't about people being destructive or abusive.

The anominity here is not about hiding behind a screen... its about the truth coming out. Being behind a computer screen is no differnt that having a few drinks to lower you inhabitions, I get a couple glasses of wine into my wife and "no" becomes "now"... is there anything wrong with that? This is what I'm talking about. It seems like what you are talking about is people have A LOT of drinks and becoming a total asshat.

I guess we agree then?

I was getting off track I guess, but I've seen off an on here where a poster is told that a picture belongs in a trash can. That is not critiquing. If that is not being an asshat, I don't know what is. That is the kind of behavior I alluded to. Some people are just out to be mean for sake of being mean because they believe nothing can be done to them.

 

[Boomn4x4]

Some people are just out to be mean for sake of being mean because they believe nothing can be done to them.

But honestly, don't we all just get into a situation where something gets under our skin and you just blow a gasket. There isn't anything unnatural about getting irriated, right or wrong, about something and saying something you probably shouldn't have.

I'm a member a many of Internet forums, I own a few myself. I'm sure if I added them up, I've got tens of thousands of posts over the past decade or so. I've seen those people that you are talking about over and over again... and the honest truth is, they don't last very long at all. Eventually people either get irritated by them and ignore them all together or the administrators of the board identify them and ban them.

I really do stand firm in that you really just do need to have thick skin if you are going to be posting things on the Internet... especially if you are asking for a critique. Stop letting people bother you, take what you read with a grain of salt and move on with your life. While it makes for a great discussion... there's no reason to start a 5 page thread over it.

 

[fokker]

You know what I think is rude? When someone asks for criticism and you give it to them, and they don't thank you or acknowledge your post.

This isn't a one-way street.

Amen brother.

Question: Is it better to give blunt C&C, even if lacking in tact and overall comprehensiveness, than to ignore the thread and move on? I would say no, hence I try to give C&C whenever I have an opinion one way or another. Some people already touched on it in this thread, that the worst thing is having a photo with 200 views and no replies. Is it better to know that the photo sucks for unknown reasons, than to maybe think that it's the bee's knee's? Hell yes!

 

[Derrel]

.... fill out in triplicate and return to the to moderators of this site.

Some words of advice......This is the Internet... people are blunt... stay at this site, leave and find another... you'll run into the same thing. Its just the way it is.

So brilliant, I felt compelled to quote it. Not sure what got your feelings hurt McMommy, but I think the Beginner's Forum has a lot of potential for those who will do a forum search for simple questions, and especially for questions about buying one beginner's camera versus another manufacturer's competing model. I think sometimes people who post the same question as 30 or 40 prior posters are entering into the zone where they will almost surely be hit by crossfire from both sides. As far as photo criticism, many people offer up sugar-coated platitudes for bad work so as not to offend, but I think it helps for people who want C&C to take a bit of the responsibility for what they receive by **framing their request** for C&C with some guidelines as to what they expect. For example: I think it helps for people to ask about areas they wish to hear opinions on, like, "How is the color saturation on this?" or, "How is this, compositionally speaking?" or, "How could I make this better in terms of posing?" and so on.
Instead, what we often see is a simple, C&C appreciated...

 

[Alan92RTTT]

The best C&C is the one that is listened to.

If its not about bluntness. You can be nice but blunt you can be rude and blunt. If you are too nice the person may not take the issue with their image as seriously as they should. If you are rude the person may just ignore you and your criticism that my be perfectly valid. Then time you took to leave it could be wasted.

 

[pbelarge]

Is it better to know that the photo sucks for unknown reasons, than to maybe think that it's the bee's knee's? Hell yes!

This is where I tend to disagree.

There are many here who have no clue...me included.

When someone says the photo sucks and does not provide even one reason, that is not acceptable to me.
Tell me it sucks because of color, composition, focus, wrong aperture, etc... and now there is a reason it sucks. I do not have to like the reason, but give me some direction. If you provide me with a 'term' as part of the response, I can google it and try to find more info...I do it all the time

I am an expert in my field. One of the reasons I have the reputation I have is because I provide an answer. There are many times they are not happy with the answer, but they are always content they have a proper answer. And how do I know that? They keep asking.


So, if one wants to say it sucks and not provide a reason, that person is just vindictive (that is my opinion).
If one does not want to provide an opinion, then do not respond.

I mean how hard is that????





One other issue that has already been mentioned, but I think deserves more ink.

This forum cover a lot of geographic territory, which is a really good thing. But, we are all different, and a response can easily be misconstrued just for that reason.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

Whether it was his intent or not, I had my eyes initially opened to some of these ideas by cloud. Listen to him. He's shmaht.

Thanks but I'm really not that smart. Unlike some I can't pick up a banjo and start playing However, I have been at this (the arts and photo) for a long time, love it, have paid attention and learned. Most of all I grew hippo skin...

vtf - the many (!) times my posts with photos go down the drain in no time at all with no replies (maybe one) just tell me that apparently my photos are downright boring.

Actually I think the better photos tend to get fewer responses while the really "bad" ones will get pages of them. Remember the S cat photo for example?

Some say that forums are harsh and brutal and that the "real world" is also like that as well so forums should be too Kind of an "I was beaten and so I shall beat you" argument I feel and I've never ever liked it or the mentality that thinking that way leads to.

I don't remember anyone saying it "should be." Only that it is.

The art world is no harsher then any other profession in real life. Life is rough. However, I don't recall EVER when I was in school, a teacher would call me out in front of a class, and say that I suck. I don't recall EVER my boss say my work suck when we are alone much less in public. If you want to be treated like a professional, then act like one. I serious doubt that anyone here would talk to a person face to face the way they talk here on the forum. Instead of telling someone to get thicker skin, perhaps we should try to change the behavior of the offenders.

Now, If a newbie ask a dumb question that irritate you, just move on. If you want to share your passion, want the art to grow, then be patient and teach. Use simple language they can understand.

You say the art world is no harsher but then you give us examples that combined with my story about "this is trash" would show that it is. Maybe you didn't read my previous posts... Let's not forget that, after all, to an artist, those works are our babies.

Are you an artist? Have you ever shown or tried? If not go try and let us know how it feels. I have very thick skin but it still hurts. You can never totally get rid of that.

As for moving on when you see a dumb question or a really bad photo, good idea and I do it all the time, but in case you haven't noticed some of those people then complain they don't get any responses... bump... bump... is it really that bad?

 

[gsgary]

Some get bashed because they ask silly questions before they have even read the manual or searched for a thread where it has been answered before
I think i could be one of them you are having a ***** about I dont like to gloss over the truth because it is no good telling someone a photo is good when its not, they will carry on making the same mistakes

Aye but most would perfer more elaboration on the point rather than just the point itself. Simply saying "overexposed" "clipped the red colour channel" etc... can often mean nothing to a new member. Heck if you said the last to me when I started you'd have got a me. Explination of a point is the first step to education - the second (and highly important step) is the suggestion of a (or multiple) possible solutions to the problem - be the in camera or editing methods.

This is what people are after - its not the first part - the identification of errors alone - its that and the second - the suggestion of corrections. Because when one starts they don't know the how in order to correct the mistakes even if they are shown them.

Come on i do help sometimes i dont want them to get as good as me

 

[ghpham]

You say the art world is no harsher but then you give us examples that combined with my story about "this is trash" would show that it is. Maybe you didn't read my previous posts... Let's not forget that, after all, to an artist, those works are our babies.

Are you an artist? Have you ever shown or tried? If not go try and let us know how it feels. I have very thick skin but it still hurts. You can never totally get rid of that.

As for moving on when you see a dumb question or a really bad photo, good idea and I do it all the time, but in case you haven't noticed some of those people then complain they don't get any responses... bump... bump... is it really that bad?

The story I've given is an example of what I've seen here on this forum off and on (especially from one member who have now been banned). That said, if I ever run into that kind of language, I would dismiss the person as being a non professional ignorant ass. It is one thing to give constructive criticism, and quite another to be vindictive. The art world is no more special then any other environment in real life. I've been through many different work environment in my career to know that there will be at least one ignorant vindictive ass in all of them. You've said so yourself that it hurts dispite your thick skin when at the receiving end of such a criticism. Why then you would be dismissive of such behavior here?