Upgrading to Godox/Flashpoint AD400 Strobes

[adamhiram]

For people, I'd use a gridded strip box if the intention is to provide a highlight on the top of the hairline and shoulders to make them pop off the background, placed above and to the rear of the subjects head.

This sounds like it would be centered above and behind the subject... I hope this isn’t a dumb question, but how does that differ from being off to the side like the examples above? Would that only provide hair or rim lighting on one side, or is there more spill onto the front of the subject?

 

[JBPhotog]

Think or where the light is hitting the subject. Above and behind will only skim the sides of the head and minimize the face. To the side, you can hardly help but get light on the side of the face.

 

[adamhiram]

Think or where the light is hitting the subject. Above and behind will only skim the sides of the head and minimize the face. To the side, you can hardly help but get light on the side of the face.

That makes sense, but also raises the dilemma of how to put a light above and behind the subject. It also brings this thread back on topic, so that’s some gooodness as well!

It seems like it would be easy enough to just put it on a boom arm, but I don’t think I have anything strong enough to hold a 6lb monolight and strip box. This would mean either picking up an AD400 extension head, which isn’;t actually available yet, or a sturdier boom arm.

Alternately, I could simply put it on a regular light stand behind the backdrop, but that also means moving everything forward 2-3’, and space is already tight. This would most likely mean moving the subject closer to the backdrop, which isn’t ideal, or shooting slightly wider, which I also don’’t want to do. 85mm is beautiful for headshots, 50mm just isn’t the same.

It sounds like it’s time to take some test shots moving the light around until I figure out what will work in my space. Now I’m starting to understand why @smoke665 shoots in the dark to better utilize the modeling lights!

Thank you very much for this great feedback, it has been immensely helpful.

 

[Derrel]

The angle at which a side light or rim light comes in has a major bearing on how specular it looks. Light that comes in from the side is much less specular, much less hot. When the light skims off of the subject at a steep angle, it looks quite hot. When the light comes in from the sides at the 8 or 9 or 10 o clock positions it appears much less specular.

Yes, shooting in the dark and using the studio modeling lights is a time-tested way to see what the heck you will be getting. When the room light is quite bright you do not have as clear an appreciation of what your studio lights are actually doing.

 

[JBPhotog]

A sturdy boom arm is pretty much essential for proper placement of a hair light unless the subject is very close to the background which as you say is less than ideal in most conditions. Make sure you use proper grip technique such as leg placement, counter weight and spigot angle and you’ll be good.

You are welcome, on occasion the interweb can be a good resource.

 

[smoke665]

It sounds like it’s time to take some test shots moving the light around until I figure out what will work in my space. Now I’m starting to understand why @smoke665 shoots in the dark to better utilize the modeling lights!

UREAKA! He's catching on. LOL Learning proper placement on a human subject was hard for me, even the slightest movement changed things. Then I found the "Other Woman" my DW's Styrofoam wig head. She would sit for hours if I wanted without complaint, and always posed in the exact position I wanted. I set up in a dark studio and worked first with the modeling light of each individual light moving them around and studying where highlights and shadows fell, then turned on all the lights and did the same thing. I didn't fire a shot, instead standing such that my eyes were in the place where the camera would be. That's a key point, it only matters if a highlight or shadow is visible to the camera. Once I had a good idea how placement affected light fall, then I switched to camera to fine tune and study settings for ratios. Now I have a feel for where things need to be so setup goes a lot faster. While you're doing this, now is a good time to study feathering, See how you can use it in your setups.

As to hair, kicker, rim, whatever, location relative to the camera view is the deciding factor. If your unintentional light spill is falling into an area visible to the camera, as in your 1st shot on the cheek, then as I and others have mentioned your light placement is wrong. Notice I used the word "unintentional", I did that because there is a dramatic effect setup that uses side lighting on each side which highlights the sides of the face and shoulders but somewhat casts the front mask in shadow.

@Derrel brought up an important consideration on angle vs specularity. If you're only trying to achieve that narrow band of highlight separation then IMO it doesnt matter, but as you start to move the light such that more of the hair or skin is exposed then yes it matters. I posted one a while back that the subject was solid black, using rim light only to provide a highlight around. Looked like it had been drawn with a white brush on black paper. Specularity is tool, if you use it properly. Also to be considered is the quality of this light as to hard or soft. Do you want a sharp transition on your separation or a more gradual one?

Lastly think about how you use your tools, is it easier to use a chainsaw to cut a tiny twig or pruning shears? The same applies to lighting setups on your son. Look for combinations that provide zones as compared to those that require precision placement at least for now. Just my opinion, but I'd much rather have an image that looks like I placed all my lights correctly with a great expression, then to have something glaring out of place, that takes away from a great expression. As your subjects mature, add to your setups, pick your tools wisely for the application.

 

[JBPhotog]

FWIW, here's a recent example I did with a client. The diagram doesn't show accurate positioning of the lights since the software won't let me turn them downward. But the key is above and in front angled toward the subject, the fill is on a floor stand base essentially the head is at floor level and the hair light is overhead to the rear and angled down towards the subject. Notice how the hair light illuminates the top of the head but doesn't catch the sides of the face, it also provides illumination to the shoulders and legs of the subject.

All lights are @40 degree fabric gridded.

 

[Derrel]

Lighting diagrams are always suspect. There is no substitute for actually setting up lights and seeing what the results are. This is no knock on JBphotographer, but it's just a comment that I have observed over the years. Lighting diagrams are just a rough guide, and there is no software that really can translate real world Studio conditions into an easy-to-use computer application output file.

 

[smoke665]

@JBPhotog nice one. Your setup is a good example of what i was suggesting earlier though you can have the issue of unintentional spill on the face if the subject moves. Still it will be less on the face with the light direction down as opposed to coming in from the side.

Not mentioned is controlling light bouncing around the room. I'm assuming those are black flags on the sides. I recently constructed some 4x8 panels that are black on one side white on the other that hang from the floor joists in my garage from hooks and eye bolts. Little differences add up.

 

[JBPhotog]

Lighting diagrams are always suspect. There is no substitute for actually setting up lights and seeing what the results are. This is no knock on JBphotographer, but it's just a comment that I have observed over the years. Lighting diagrams are just a rough guide, and there is no software that really can translate real world Studio conditions into an easy-to-use computer application output file.

Agreed the software has its limits as a diagram and of course one can only surmise rough direction from such a crude diagram. The point was to show placement of the hair light.

 

[JBPhotog]

@JBPhotog nice one. Your setup is a good example of what i was suggesting earlier though you can have the issue of unintentional spill on the face if the subject moves. Still it will be less on the face with the light direction down as opposed to coming in from the side.

Not mentioned is controlling light bouncing around the room. I'm assuming those are black flags on the sides. I recently constructed some 4x8 panels that are black on one side white on the other that hang from the floor joists in my garage from hooks and eye bolts. Little differences add up.

Thanks @smoke665. You are correct, the black panels are actually 4x8x2” styrofoam insulation panels painted black on one side to prevent bounce from spilling into the set, the flip side is perfect as a white bounce panel. I have made V-flats out of two separate panels and joined them with a flexible vinyl material as the hinge, again black one one side.

 

[smoke665]

@JBPhotog I couldnt find the 2" foam locally, and laminated thinner sheets was expensive. Went instead with modified torsion box construction with .115 masonite for skin. Smooth side is neutral gray, that I can use for any color background I want and backside is black. 4 of them bolt together in different configurations from a wall 16' long to "V" to corner and wall arrangements. They weigh less then 30 lbs, assemble/disassemble easy, and hang for storage against the wall.

 

[adamhiram]

It sounds like it’s time to take some test shots moving the light around until I figure out what will work in my space.

Wow, what a difference a foot or two makes! The test shots below were taken with a similar setup to the one used previously, but with a black seamless backdrop to better isolate the hair light. I intentionally overexposed the hair light by about 1-1.5 stops to emphasize its effects. The goal here was primarily to separate the subject from the background.

• The first shot was taken using the same hair light placement used in my original shots earlier in this thread. It's pretty easy to see that the light is spilling onto the face and causing some noticeable highlights.
• The 2nd shot has the hair light moved just to the edge of the backdrop and slightly in front of it, just out of frame. I think this is the result I was looking for, and seems to work best in the space I have available. The spill on the face is fixed, and as an added bonus the spill on the background is reduced without having to flag it by moving it forward slightly.
• The 3rd shot used an overhead hair light on a boom arm. I'm not sure I got this one quite right, but it also seems like I just don't have the space for this setup. With lower 7.5' ceilings I just couldn't get the hair light out of the frame and had to clone it out. I also pushed this lightweight boom arm to its limits even with minimal extension, as it is really intended for holding speed lights and is not rated to hold more than 5lbs.

Any thoughts or feedback on these shots - am I getting closer, anything I could improve on?


20191219-DSC_6196-compositea by adamhiram, on Flickr

 

[smoke665]

The 2nd is definitely an improvement over the original. Low ceilings are a limiting factor, I struggle at times with 10'. If you still have everything set up try moving your key around. Closer to camera axis, closer to subject, experiment. Do the same with your reflector. Use your modeling lights and watch closely the shadows how they open up and darken, how the highlights change. Go up and down on your key and watch the eye sockets.

 

[JBPhotog]

@JBPhotog I couldnt find the 2" foam locally, and laminated thinner sheets was expensive. Went instead with modified torsion box construction with .115 masonite for skin. Smooth side is neutral gray, that I can use for any color background I want and backside is black. 4 of them bolt together in different configurations from a wall 16' long to "V" to corner and wall arrangements. They weigh less then 30 lbs, assemble/disassemble easy, and hang for storage against the wall.

I think finding thick styrofoam 4x8's sheets could be regional depending on the weather fluctuations of the local environment. However, it is another story getting them home from the DIY store in one piece, think of a mattress tied to the roof, LOL.