Upgrading to Godox/Flashpoint AD400 Strobes

JBPhotog · Dec 19, 2019

@adamhiram; Your three shot against black is a good example of seeing where the highlights are falling in relation to light placement, good for you for doing this test.

How far from the subject position is the hair light? It is hard to tell just how far back your hair light is but to me it looks as if it is very close to your background position. From my experience it can be a few feet behind the subject and even in normal height ceilings it won't be in the shot unless you wants tonnes of headroom in the photo.

For me, I prefer shot #3 placement as #2 is bleeding onto the neck of the subject. However, in #3 I think you are getting lens flare so moving it closer to the subject and rotating down will help mitigate this due to the use of the fabric grid on the strip. If that doesn't solve it, make sure you are using a lens hood sans filters and if it persists use a flag. Two options for flagging are just behind the subject so the strip light doesn't hit the lens but this can sometimes be in the shot with low ceilings. The other option is between the subject and camera, so it can be raised high enough to not be in the shot and also be effective.

Also, if your modifiers have flaps at the speeding position, make sure they are closed off so any bounce spill from internal light reflection doesn't escape out the back and contaminate the set.

adamhiram · Dec 19, 2019

smoke665 said:
The 2nd is definitely an improvement over the original. Low ceilings are a limiting factor, I struggle at times with 10'. If you still have everything set up try moving your key around. Closer to camera axis, closer to subject, experiment. Do the same with your reflector. Use your modeling lights and watch closely the shadows how they open up and darken, how the highlights change. Go up and down on your key and watch the eye sockets.

Unfortunately I can't leave anything setup, which is why most of my gear is very compact and portable. I played around with the other lights as well, but my focus was really on seeing what I could do with the hair light.

I'm starting to find the modeling lights more useful, but with a number of limitations I'm sure you're familiar with. They are a lot more useful at night, since this space has a large wall of windows that make it more difficult to see where the modeling light falls. The kiddo needs to sit patiently while I get the lights dialed in, which is pretty unlikely. Then he needs to actually sit still long enough to get a shot without turning his head, moving out of frame, or moving parts of the set or other gear. I typically mark the floor with bits of masking tape where everything goes to make it easier to reset and continue shooting. It sounds like I'm on the right track at least. I will likely give it another try this weekend if I can get some cooperation.

adamhiram · Dec 19, 2019

JBPhotog said:
How far from the subject position is the hair light? It is hard to tell just how far back your hair light is but to me it looks as if it is very close to your background position. From my experience it can be a few feet behind the subject and even in normal height ceilings it won't be in the shot unless you wants tonnes of headroom in the photo.

For these test shots, the subject is about 6' from the backdrop, and is positioned to be roughly the same hight as an average size adult (me) sitting on a 24" stool, with the top of the head around 60" from the ground. With the monolights being so long (about 9.5" back from the mount), this doesn't leave much room over the subject's head for a modifier. If you look at the pullback shot for the 3rd photo (same perspective, but with an UWA lens), you can see just how tight it is, and that's not even a big modifier, just a 10x24 strip box. I could certainly flag the hair light for that setup to prevent flare, but it would definitely still be in the frame for anything but a very tight composition. Of course this is not the case with a 4 year old, which may allow for more options with a better boom arm.

JBPhotog · Dec 19, 2019

I may not have been clear in my question so here is a diagram for clarity.

adamhiram · Dec 19, 2019

JBPhotog said:
I may not have been clear in my question so here is a diagram for clarity.

Thanks for the clarification, I misunderstood. Who says lighting diagrams aren't helpful! The subject is about 6' from the backdrop, and with the boom stand up against the backdrop it protrudes about 2.5'. So that means the hair light in the overhead configuration was about 3.5' behind the subject.

JBPhotog · Dec 19, 2019

Okay great, I think you can move it closer and keep it up against the ceiling. It will require a downward rotation to keep it pointed at the subject which will reduce the chances of flaring so you may not need a flag, test for sure.

adamhiram · Dec 19, 2019

JBPhotog said:
test for sure.

Thank you, I thought that's where you were going with that. I have a feeling it will be just barely out of frame at best, but may be workable. I still don't feel comfortable putting a heavy monolight on this lightweight boom arm, but I'll give it a try with my "test subject" when I have a chance to setup again.

I keep seeing other people's setups and wonder if they're doing something wrong, or if I'm just missing something. Here was another post from the Godox group today, in which the photographer was setting up to do a corporate headshot gig for an office. Unless the strip box is feathered far enough back to just catch the back of the subject's hair, wouldn't this just create a bright highlight on the edge of the face?
(image)

JBPhotog · Dec 19, 2019

It looks to be feathered back and won't act like a hair light, more of a side light. In fact if you have a zoomed in look at the cameras LCD, you can see the highlight on the camera left edge of face, ear and hair.

smoke665 · Dec 19, 2019

@adamhiram I thought of something you mentioned earlier about concern about keeping light off your background. Like everything else it's more a matter of managing your light. I did a write up on using the Dean Collins Chromozones method. Adjusting Background LIght Study I still haven't got around to completely profiling all my lights and gels but I consult the chart frequently.

When you place your hair light consider also that you're using a fairly large modifier. I did another study on the effect distance has. An Excersice On the Effect Of Distance that you might find interesting. Next time you set up to test, put a snoot w/grid on one light and leave your current hair light modifier on one. Now set them about 3' away from a wall turn them on and compare the size of the area of light thrown by each. Now double the distance and compare again.

Derrel · Dec 20, 2019

The closer a light is positioned to a subject, the more rapidly it falls off in intensity, as per the inverse Square law. If your hair light is only 42 in from a subject, then even small adjustments in the distance will have a profound impact. When you say what a difference a foot or two makes you are not kidding.

adamhiram · Jan 1, 2020

adamhiram said:
At least my issues with Amazon have just been insufficient packaging; Adorama is just sending me broken stuff now. For anyone counting, my 2019 holiday shopping total is now up to 14 damaged, defective, or incorrect items.

Unnecessary off-topic follow-up...

It looks like all of my issues with Adorama have been straightened out after 4 calls over a period of about 2.5 weeks. The lighting gel that came used/damaged was a pretty simple return, but the replacement was indefinitely back-ordered. First the requested refund never came, then it was a store credit instead of a refund, then the refund posted to my credit card but was missing the shipping cost before they finally corrected that as well. The sandbags were a bizarre issue - apparently everything at Adorama has both a SKU and a Mfg part number, and the SKU for one item matched the Mfg part number for another, and they've been sending the wrong product out. They told me to keep the incorrect items and eventually sent out the correct ones. Last was a basic light stand that showed up broken. Again the return was very simple, but the replacement order had a status of "processing" for almost 2 weeks. It finally arrived after another follow-up call, but still came with a stretched/broken wire clip that I'll probably never use so I didn't bother doing another return.

Amazon finally stopped sending me fragile items shipped in plastic bags, issued gift card credits for damaged items that did not require replacements, and told me to keep the one item that needed a replacement. This was great until Christmas when I received an automated email reminding me to ship that item back or else I will be charged for it - after I already gave it to my kid (it was a toy that came in damaged packaging). One more call to Amazon (call #3) and they rectified it.

Overall things seemed to work out, and I actually came out ahead if I don't include my time spent.

adamhiram · Jan 3, 2020

adamhiram said:
Does anyone know if there is a way to tell what power the flash fired at when used in TTL mode? I may be missing something, but as far as I can tell it hides flash power when switched to TTL, which would be a pretty useful thing to be able to see.

So there is a way to do this after all. Take a shot with the flash in TTL mode, then long-press the TCM (TTL Convert Manual) button on the XPro remote and it switches to manual mode at the approximate power the flash just fired at. I'm not sure how useful this is in practice and it didn't seem all that accurate when I took a 2nd test shot, but it gets it in the right ballpark at least.

JBPhotog · Jan 3, 2020

adamhiram said:
adamhiram said:

Does anyone know if there is a way to tell what power the flash fired at when used in TTL mode? I may be missing something, but as far as I can tell it hides flash power when switched to TTL, which would be a pretty useful thing to be able to see.

Click to expand...

So there is a way to do this after all. Take a shot with the flash in TTL mode, then long-press the TCM (TTL Convert Manual) button on the XPro remote and it switches to manual mode at the approximate power the flash just fired at. I'm not sure how useful this is in practice and it didn't seem all that accurate when I took a 2nd test shot, but it gets it in the right ballpark at least.

Yes that does get you close and under normal camera sync speeds it will convert a TTL exposure to a manual output setting on the flash, I use mine that way quite often. The caveat is, if the TTL sees too much black or white it will skew the flash exposure. As far as I know, there is no way of turning TTL High Speed Sync into a Manual setting at higher than normal sync speeds.