Wanna Make $100,000 a year?

[SoulfulRecover]

Not sure where I am going with this but; I wanted to go to a community college when I was 18 because I had no idea what I wanted to do. My fathers exact words were "No kid of mine is going to a community college" so I ended up paying out of state tuition going to Colorado State. I was lucky and my grandfather left my siblings and I money which was then invested into Apple and Dell. My brother and sister wasted away their money on fun things. I was responsible and paid for my tuition. (Had I just held onto the stock till now, I wouldn't have to worry about working) I was there for three years and found that I enjoyed photography. No photo program there so I transferred back to Austin to go to the Art Institute. All my tuition money was used up in those 3 years because of being an out of state student.

Went for a couple semesters, dropped out. Family issues meant I was "homeless" so I moved into my friends place. He got me a job working at a dealership for $8 an hour. It was a job and managed to get myself to the point of having enough money to get my own place. Barely though. I lived in "low income housing" and could only afford to eat noodles for dinner. It was rough but hell, I had my own place. I took classes for work with the promise of a raise but it never came. 5 years at the same job, kicking ass and still 8 an hour.

During that time I went back to the Art Institute to continue photography and I loved it. Got to the point on 23k of debt and knew if it was any more, I wouldn't be able to pay it off. Its 80k to get a photo degree from them. Its insane. So I dropped out again.

My now wife's boss's best friend was looking for a new accountant for his office. I resisted because I didn't want to be behind a computer but the dealership pissed me off so I left and took the accounting job. I knew nothing of it but was taught and now my boss is paying for my education as long as I pass my classes. I make salary (32k) have 3 weeks paid vacation, Christmas bonus and raises every year. I do not like my job but it provides so I do it.

So between the wife and I we make more than the average income for our area. Being placed into the entitled Millennial category because of my age really sucks. I do not feel I am apart of "their" culture as I am closer in age to Gen X but even that's pointless.

My question is who's pocketing all this tuition money??? Instead of trying to not pay your tuition, people should be trying to figure out why the cost is so high to begin with. The teachers don't make anything. Is all the money going to sports? Why? Shouldn't the money go to education?

I have friends in my field of work and they make twice what I do because they have a degree. No idea what their student loans are like though

 

[limr]

My question is who's pocketing all this tuition money??? Instead of trying to not pay your tuition, people should be trying to figure out why the cost is so high to begin with. The teachers don't make anything. Is all the money going to sports? Why? Shouldn't the money go to education?

I have friends in my field of work and they make twice what I do because they have a degree. No idea what their student loans are like though

Read this: The Invisible Force Behind College Admissions

 

[SoulfulRecover]

My question is who's pocketing all this tuition money??? Instead of trying to not pay your tuition, people should be trying to figure out why the cost is so high to begin with. The teachers don't make anything. Is all the money going to sports? Why? Shouldn't the money go to education?

I have friends in my field of work and they make twice what I do because they have a degree. No idea what their student loans are like though

Read this: The Invisible Force Behind College Admissions

Very good read. Thank you for posting. Its nuts that its operated in such a way but I guess a business is a business and money is king.

Schools do a very poor job of informing the students what the various loans mean too and how theyre paid back. Basically I remember them just saying "heres loan 1 and loan 2. Now sign here" then scooted me out the door. Always slow to pay me but as soon as I owed $1, they would yell and scream about getting their money.

 

[smoke665]

Something that was still going when I was kid were the Apprenticeship Programs, for skilled trades. Then it kind of died away as not being cool. I've been pleasantly surprised in recent years to see a reemergence of the it as a partnership between the state and business. We've had a lot of industry move in (automotive, aerospace) that require skilled employees. Classroom training, followed by OJT is providing opportunities for not only young people but adults seeking to earn a decent living. It's a shame that it isn't being expanded for other fields.

@limr a very wise and successful businessman took me under his wing as a mentor during my college years. His words still hold meaning. "A degree in anything doesn't qualify you for a job, it provides a foundation to build on". The "useless" degrees I referred to earlier were "general studies" with nothing to build on, and no job experience.

 

[limr]

@limr a very wise and successful businessman took me under his wing as a mentor during my college years. His words still hold meaning. "A degree in anything doesn't qualify you for a job, it provides a foundation to build on". The "useless" degrees I referred to earlier were "general studies" with nothing to build on, and no job experience.

But this still assumes that the only purpose for a degree is to train someone very specifically for a specific job. It dismisses the value of the critical thinking, research, and communication skills, for example, that are often hallmarks of liberal art curricula, and are often much more applicable to the 'real world' than most people realize. There are very few degrees that have built-in "job experience" (internships or clinical work, for example.) Otherwise, one gets job experience from, y'know, having a job.

 

[waday]

My few cents:

In my field especially (engineering), it seems as if a bachelor's degree is increasingly being seen as "not enough". Master's degrees are now typically preferred. One problem is that there isn't much of a pay difference between bachelor's and master's. But, I guess you make it up in marketability.

Too bad they don't generally teach "marketability" to college students. Let alone what "billability" means, or the fact that they'll be writing reports more than they'll be designing.

Also, there are a considerable number of people that are no longer retiring and are staying around as long as they can. This puts a burden on us younger folk who are now having difficulty with upward mobility and taking on additional responsibilities that are no longer being passed down to us. Some of these soon-to-be retirees are even refusing to help teach and mentor these younger folk (likely for obvious reasons for being replaced). Problem is that hurts all of us.

It's not the same everywhere, but I've noticed this in at least three different companies I've worked for.

No longer can college graduates start in the mail room and become CEO. We have to jump from job to job every few years to get pay bumps and different titles. Otherwise, you stay at the same level and, if you're lucky, get a 1-3% raise. Sometimes I didn't get a raise. In the last 8 or so years, I've worked for 3 different companies. It was the only way for me to increase my pay AND increase my level of responsibility (despite the company being an international company with the "ability" to move and work on various projects.. ha!).

As a side note: You want to be a factory worker without a degree? Sometimes that's not enough, either.

 

[smoke665]

@limr read my post "A degree in anything doesn't qualify you for a job, it provides a foundation to build on". There's not a big demand for free thinkers in the world without some basic understanding of the field they are entering, unless it's the government, and we all know how that's worked out. If the only thing you have to offer is a general studies degree and nothing else, would you want to go to a doctor who's assisting nurse has no basics? How about an accountant who lets a "free thinker with good communication skill" and no accounting basics, do you income tax?

 

[limr]

@limr read my post "A degree in anything doesn't qualify you for a job, it provides a foundation to build on". There's not a big demand for free thinkers in the world without some basic understanding of the field they are entering, unless it's the government, and we all know how that's worked out. If the only thing you have to offer is a general studies degree and nothing else, would you want to go to a doctor who's assisting nurse has no basics? How about an accountant who lets a "free thinker with good communication skill" and no accounting basics, do you income tax?

I didn't say "free thinker"; I said "critical thinking." Again, you are assuming that a general liberal arts curriculum is not providing a foundation. It's not all heads-in-the-clouds stuff they're learning. And what general studies graduate is applying for nursing or accounting jobs? Of course that's not what I'm talking about. If that is happening, then it still doesn't mean that the degree is useless, but, as I originally said, "inappropriate for the context." There could be many reasons the person is applying for a job for which he or she is not trained, but it's still disingenuous to call their degree "useless" just because they're applying for the wrong jobs.

I'm talking about a person who graduated with a degree in, for example, humanities but applies for entry-level business positions and doesn't get hired because the assumption is that the person has no "useful" skills when in fact, many of the skills can transfer to a business environment.

 

[table1349]

My question is who's pocketing all this tuition money??? Instead of trying to not pay your tuition, people should be trying to figure out why the cost is so high to begin with. The teachers don't make anything. Is all the money going to sports? Why? Shouldn't the money go to education?

I have friends in my field of work and they make twice what I do because they have a degree. No idea what their student loans are like though

Read this: The Invisible Force Behind College Admissions

Very good read. Thank you for posting. Its nuts that its operated in such a way but I guess a business is a business and money is king.

Schools do a very poor job of informing the students what the various loans mean too and how theyre paid back. Basically I remember them just saying "heres loan 1 and loan 2. Now sign here" then scooted me out the door. Always slow to pay me but as soon as I owed $1, they would yell and scream about getting their money.

Sadly, it seems that higher education is less about education and more about making money.

Another issue is the shift in faculty make up.
College Professors: Before You Teach, Learn How!
More Than Half of College Faculty Are Adjuncts: Should You Care?

At the university I attended in the early 70's most of the instructors were full time employees of the university. Most of them were also carrying a large class load. Their office hours were necessary as it was usually the only time they weren't in the classroom. 65% of expenditures by 2 & 4 year institutions is for salaries alone these days. Surprisingly 35% are for non teaching positions.

I am personally familiar with several instructors at that same university that teach only one or two classes.

 

[smoke665]

it seems as if a bachelor's degree is increasingly being seen as "not enough". Master's degrees are now typically preferred.

My adult kids have found this out as well. Both went back after their MBA. One is accountant, one is the head of and IT department.

No longer can college graduates start in the mail room and become CEO. We have to jump from job to job every few years to get pay bumps and different titles

Unfortunately this hasn't changed all that much. I was taught from the beginning never stay at a company less than 2 years (or you'll be called a job jumper) or more than 5 (or they forget about you). Oldest son worked for a large Federal court system in one state in IT for 15 years and had stagnated. Took a job at a larger Federal court system in another state for a lot more pay and rapidly moved up the ladder to the IT Manger, and already eyeing Administrative Deputy Clerk spot. Had he stayed in the old spot he would still be in the toilet.

 

[ClickAddict]

........There are very few degrees that have built-in "job experience" (internships or clinical work, for example.) Otherwise, one gets job experience from, y'know, having a job.

Actually, that was a major issue that Universities in at least our province have worked to overcome. Many of the faculties have developped "Co-Op" type programs or other work related internships.

My son right now is working an 8 month term after about 4 terms of study (he studied through his first summer after year 1 and only started his work term in January). Then back to school for probably 8 months before being back to another work term. Will add about 1-2 years of university life, but once he's graduated he should have about 2 years worth of Practical job experience in his field.

computer Science, Engineering, Nursiong, Teaching... all have long ago developed internships. I've heard many of the business programs have some now as well (not sure how well implemented they are yet)

There's big money to be had in education so they are not sitting around on old ways... they are listening and adapting as much as they can.

 

[waday]

Unfortunately this hasn't changed all that much. I was taught from the beginning never stay at a company less than 2 years (or you'll be called a job jumper) or more than 5 (or they forget about you). Oldest son worked for a large Federal court system in one state in IT for 15 years and had stagnated. Took a job at a larger Federal court system in another state for a lot more pay and rapidly moved up the ladder to the IT Manger, and already eyeing Administrative Deputy Clerk spot. Had he stayed in the old spot he would still be in the toilet.

Glad to hear that he's moving up after changing jobs! I've found the same. I'm moving into more of a managerial role, which would not have happened at my last job. As you very correctly put it, I was "forgotten" after about 5 years. I was only remembered when I quit.

 

[smoke665]

@waday sometimes the forgetfulness isn't intentional. Sometimes you simply hit a barrier with a company, as in there isn't anywhere to go above you, until someone else is promoted, fired, or retires.

 

[limr]

........There are very few degrees that have built-in "job experience" (internships or clinical work, for example.) Otherwise, one gets job experience from, y'know, having a job.

Actually, that was a major issue that Universities in at least our province have worked to overcome. Many of the faculties have developped "Co-Op" type programs or other work related internships.

My son right now is working an 8 month term after about 4 terms of study (he studied through his first summer after year 1 and only started his work term in January). Then back to school for probably 8 months before being back to another work term. Will add about 1-2 years of university life, but once he's graduated he should have about 2 years worth of Practical job experience in his field.

computer Science, Engineering, Nursiong, Teaching... all have long ago developed internships. I've heard many of the business programs have some now as well (not sure how well implemented they are yet)

There's big money to be had in education so they are not sitting around on old ways... they are listening and adapting as much as they can.

Yes, I'm aware that there's a push to include more "experiential" or "applied" learning opportunities and requirements into programs that traditionally didn't have them previously (I was on a committee ). The other buzzword term is "guided pathways" especially in community colleges. It's all a push to drive not just enrollment in programs but completion and entry into the workforce.

So yes, in the future, there will be more new graduates who apply for their first jobs with more job experience, like you have in many more technical, skill-oriented, STEM field majors.

But even so, general education requirements aren't going to go by the wayside, nor should they. They still teach valuable "soft" skills that are needed in the workplace. A college education should still mean that a person is not just learning job skills and knowledge, but is also learning critical thinking, communication, autonomy...it should give a person a broadened perspective on the world. Even the most skill-oriented college program is not the same as (and should not be the same as) a program at a trade school or apprenticeship.

 

[KmH]

The job market is changing faster today than it ever has, making it a crap shoot to pick a college major that will have long term traction traction.
Young people should expect to go to college 2 or 3 times and have 5 or more 'careers'.

Young people could be facing a life of constantly being burdened with lots of education debt.

There are jobs that 1. need no degree and 2. you will not have to change you career path 5 or 6 times and still make good money.

Every one wants clean water coming into their house so plumbers aren't going anywhere.

People want the crap, literally their crap gone from their house so septic and sewer works aren't going anywhere.

People want heat in the winter and cool in the summer so HVAC technicians aren't going anywhere.

People want their lights to turn on and off with out burning the house down. Electricians aren't going anywhere.

They may not be glamorous jobs but if you have had to call any of the above recently you know that they are making good money. The need for college will recede in the future as we are more and more becoming a service driven society.

Robots are already taking over many service jobs. There are even robotic surgery suites in some hospitals, so even surgeons can be replaced by robots.

Plumbers, electricians, HVAC techs are all going to lose their jobs to robots in the not distant future.
Those systems will be designed by robots to facilitate the use of robots to install and repair them.
For a short time humans will still be needed to repair the older systems still in use, but robots will quickly be able to repair even those systems.

So the real question becomes - As robots proliferate, how will people make enough money to live?