What should I charge for usage of a photo in a tv show for a major network?

[imagemaker46]

Are you a professional photographer? Have you ever worked as a professional photographer? Have you ever worked for Getty or Reuters or Associated Press as a photographer?

 

[tirediron]

And so the photographers tell Getty "I'm worth $1000" and Getty turns around and says "good for you, but we only pay $200" So the photographer turns down shooting an entire NHL season at $200 per game and making $8000, over saying "But I'm worth $1000 per game" To Getty he is worth $200. So what you are saying is turn down $8000 because it devalues you being a photographer and driving down an industry that has already been devalued by all the weekend professionals? I'd rather be guaranteed $8000 than zero, I'd rather be working than sitting at home doing nothing. The whole professional market changed with digital, it is a reality, it also means that professional photographers are now accepting jobs at a lesser fee because there is always someone standing behind them with a camera willing to take that job. This is my reality, that I work in.

I'm in the business, have been for a very long time, I've seen how the market has changed and I've seen how the big companies are offering far less than they used to, and in order to stay in the business the majority of professionals have had to make changes to work.

I used to shoot for football and hockey card companies, I'd get paid $100 per picture for the use on a card, good money if you sell them 200 pictures, now the one football card company that I no longer shoot for offered me $25 per card, if I sold them 10 pictures I would be lucky as they are now getting pictures from every amateur that gets accredited to shoot a game. It costs me more to get to the game and shoot than I would be making, but all these amateurs are happy to show off the photo on the. The Card company devalued the photos in order to stay in business.


If you can turn down $3000 then good for you to sticking up for what you believe will hold your market strong. The guy that accepts the $3000 banks the money, and you bank zero. At the end of the day someone is always standing behind you that will be more than happy to take 10 jobs at $3000.

Thanks for the info IM; I'll be honest, not working in that market, I had no idea that side of things had fallen so badly and I would have started out in the 2.5 - 3K area for an image like that, just based on other usages and instinct.

 

[tirediron]

And so the photographers tell Getty "I'm worth $1000" and Getty turns around and says "good for you, but we only pay $200" So the photographer turns down shooting an entire NHL season at $200 per game and making $8000, over saying "But I'm worth $1000 per game" To Getty he is worth $200. So what you are saying is turn down $8000 because it devalues you being a photographer and driving down an industry that has already been devalued by all the weekend professionals?

They only pay $200 because too many photographers have said that is acceptable, else they wouldn't 'only pay $200' or they wouldn't have any photos to sell themselves. Getting photographers to DEVALUE themselves is why Getty is worth over 3 BILLION and you're working for peanuts. So to reiterate, please refer to post #25.

Good luck with that Don Quixote!

I agree with you totally, BUT, at the end of the day, unless every independant photographer joins together, you're not likely to change much. The game has changed and these are the new rules.

 

[imagemaker46]

Unless you're working in the business it's tough to really understand some areas of it. Same as I would never tell a mechanic what tools to buy and how things are going for him. If he finds out that a fleet company is now paying less for brake work he used to do, doesn't mean his skills as a mechanic have changed, just what the market pays now. He has a choice, make some money, or make no money.

 

[Jessiedee]

Exactly! Something is always better than nothing and I'm sorry people might feel it's devaluing their work but I'm not really in the same market as you and I can't help that I haven't been in the industry as long. All I can do is keep learning and trying

So here's my next question.... Would it better to ask what they normally offer? Or should I just say somewhere between $300-$500 and call it a day?

 

[KmH]

Negotiating is a necessary photography business skill.

The Photographer's Guide to Negotiating

If you ask what they normally offer and they give you a number, how do you know they aren't low balling you?

I recommend "just say somewhere between $300-$500 and call it a day?", this time. And then spend some time learning what your photographs are actually worth for that usage.
http://asmp.org/tutorials/licensing-guide.html
http://asmp.org/tutorials/toolkit-licensing-requests.html

 

[imagemaker46]

Exactly! Something is always better than nothing and I'm sorry people might feel it's devaluing their work but I'm not really in the same market as you and I can't help that I haven't been in the industry as long. All I can do is keep learning and trying

So here's my next question.... Would it better to ask what they normally offer? Or should I just say somewhere between $300-$500 and call it a day?

It is a crap shoot these days, if you say to them you want between $300-500 and they come back and say that works for us, which is it? If you ask them what kind of budget for photos are they working with, they may come back and offer you between $500-1000, fact is, you just don't know. Negotiating is a skill, but all magazines/book publishers/TV/Film also have set fees, and no amount of negotiating is going to get you what you think the images are worth, they are only worth what people will pay for them. The only time I negotiate fees is when I am selling more than one photo, the rates change based on if they want 1-7 or 8-12 and then up from there, the more they want the lower the fee they pay.

Companies are cheap these days, they want more for less, and I have had some magazinzes come to me looking for images that I am offering at a great rate, and they still figure it is too high, I don't end up seling anything to them, there is a minimum that I won't go below.

It's a tough call.

 

[imagemaker46]

Negotiating is a necessary photography business skill.

The Photographer's Guide to Negotiating

If you ask what they normally offer and they give you a number, how do you know they aren't low balling you?

I recommend "just say somewhere between $300-$500 and call it a day?", this time. And then spend some time learning what your photographs are actually worth for that usage.
Licensing Guide | American Society of Media Photographers
Toolkit for Licensing Requests | American Society of Media Photographers

The guide to negotiating was published 7 years ago and is outdated, a lot has happened during that time, while I'm sure some of the same principals will apply, I'm sure many won't.

 

[Jessiedee]

It is a crap shoot these days, if you say to them you want between $300-500 and they come back and say that works for us, which is it? If you ask them what kind of budget for photos are they working with, they may come back and offer you between $500-1000, fact is, you just don't know. Negotiating is a skill, but all magazines/book publishers/TV/Film also have set fees, and no amount of negotiating is going to get you what you think the images are worth, they are only worth what people will pay for them. The only time I negotiate fees is when I am selling more than one photo, the rates change based on if they want 1-7 or 8-12 and then up from there, the more they want the lower the fee they pay.

Companies are cheap these days, they want more for less, and I have had some magazinzes come to me looking for images that I am offering at a great rate, and they still figure it is too high, I don't end up seling anything to them, there is a minimum that I won't go below.

It's a tough call.

In your opinion, which do you think is the better route? Which do you think will benefit me more? I know you can't predict that but you have a bit more experience with this than I do. You actually have legitimate things to say with things to back them up without just telling me I'm inexperienced. I really appreciate that!

Do you think if I ask too much they will just not use my photo? Or do you think there actually is room for negotiating? I don't want them to decide I'm too much trouble and not use my photo at all.

 

[tirediron]

I will certaintly bow to any advice that Imagemaker has on this topic; my feeling is that unless your first offer is ridiculously far above their ceiling, they will probably come back with a counter offer.

 

[mjhoward]

And so the photographers tell Getty "I'm worth $1000" and Getty turns around and says "good for you, but we only pay $200" So the photographer turns down shooting an entire NHL season at $200 per game and making $8000, over saying "But I'm worth $1000 per game" To Getty he is worth $200. So what you are saying is turn down $8000 because it devalues you being a photographer and driving down an industry that has already been devalued by all the weekend professionals?

They only pay $200 because too many photographers have said that is acceptable, else they wouldn't 'only pay $200' or they wouldn't have any photos to sell themselves. Getting photographers to DEVALUE themselves is why Getty is worth over 3 BILLION and you're working for peanuts. So to reiterate, please refer to post #25.

Good luck with that Don Quixote!

I agree with you totally, BUT, at the end of the day, unless every independant photographer joins together, you're not likely to change much. The game has changed and these are the new rules.

Good luck with what? I never said that wasn't the case. Apparently the original point has either been missed or fallen on deaf ears. Someone argued that the profession hasn't been devalued, and I maintain that it has, simple as that.

 

[KmH]

The guide to negotiating was published 7 years ago and is outdated, a lot has happened during that time, while I'm sure some of the same principals will apply, I'm sure many won't.

I wonder. Have you read the book?

What do you recommend instead?

 

[Jessiedee]

[

Good luck with what? I never said that wasn't the case. Apparently the original point has either been missed or fallen on deaf ears. Someone argued that the profession hasn't been devalued, and I maintain that it has, simple as that.

I totally agree and it sucks, especially just coming into an industry that's been "devalued" but I'm pretty most of the economy has been devalued in some way or another....

 

[Jessiedee]

The guide to negotiating was published 7 years ago and is outdated, a lot has happened during that time, while I'm sure some of the same principals will apply, I'm sure many won't.

I wonder. Have you read the book?

What do you recommend instead?

I'm sure there is good information in there and it's a great starting point for me.

I think all that he's trying to say is 7 years is a long time.... In 2005 gas was only $2 and I hadn't even graduated high school yet ( don't hate! ) So yes, in 7 years a lot can happen, especially in a technology field like this.

 

[imagemaker46]

The guide to negotiating was published 7 years ago and is outdated, a lot has happened during that time, while I'm sure some of the same principals will apply, I'm sure many won't.

I wonder. Have you read the book?

What do you recommend instead?

I have not read the book, when I talk to clients I prefer to use my own words, thoughts and experience. It used to be a lot easier dealing in the past, everyone really did have set fees and they were higher than they are now, most companies still have room to negotiate but the starting point is lower than it used to be.