When a session goes poorly

[Tony S]

How you respond to this depends on what you have written in your contract, which you don't mention anything about having one. That should spell out what they expect from you, what you expect from them, what the costs are, and since you are shooting a newborn infant a contingency plan in case the shoot doesn't work out. If you felt something was "off" from the beginng it might have been a good thing to ask if today was a good time.


Again, it all depends on what is in your written contract.

 

[kathyt]

Hello! This is my first post here. I'm a family/infant/child photographer.

Today I had my first bad session with a client. It was a newborn session. I described in detail via email to the parents what the session would entail, including that it can be a lengthy session, up to three hours, when you allow for feedings, diaper changes, etc.

I usually have fantastic rapport with clients. Everything felt off as soon as I walked in the door. I'm guessing the parents were tired (as all new parents are) but they were short with me and short with each other. I shot for about 30-35 minutes and then baby wanted to eat and needed a diaper change. The dad picked up the baby and announced that the shoot was over. I told him that I was happy to wait for baby to eat, etc.. Both parents were adamant that the session was over, that surely I had enough photos and then basically said good-bye and left the room.

So, I have no idea what was going for them, but what I do know is I have barely three images that I'm really happy with and only a couple more that I barely pleased with. This is the first time this has happened. I usually have to cut myself off when processing photos at around 30, even though I only guarantee approximately 15.

I'm just not sure how to handle it from here. I'm so bummed. I usually leave sessions elated and can't wait to sit down to start editing. Right now I'm just staring at what little photos I have and cringing. Any advice?

So, three hours (180 minutes), with an expectation of 15 "guaranteed" decent shots per session. That's one decent shot every 12 minutes of shooting. So, every hour you expect to make just over four decent photos?

The "lifestyle" photo comments from Kathy were amusing...

Snapping away fro three hours and filling up 32 gigs worth of CF cards while snapping 700 to 800, or even 1,000 pictures, and managing to eke out a few acceptable frames is entirely the opposite of being able to create imminently saleable photos, one after another, fast and reliably. But that's the difference between having learned on film, where each shots sets you back a dollar, and being able to impose on people for three hours...

Why is this amusing? There is nothing amusing about it. She stated she guarantees 15 images, but normally delivers about 30 images. Pixmedic, lifestyle is more of a candid approach in their environment. For example she could include many rooms in their home like the nursery and the living room, etc. Sometimes these sessions can be really difficult because you have no idea what type of lighting situations you might be walking into. Derrel, who are our newborn photogs on this forum? Ask them how long they tell their clients to prepare for their session (time wise) and how many images they guarantee in their gallery.

 

[thetrue]

I would, but this family asked that I not post images online.

Oh, it's Blake Shelton and Miranda Lambert? Or is it Brad and Angelina?

 

[Brandon Hill]

I can't imagine pulling off any kind of photo shoot in a half hour with great success. I sympathize with your situation GDC.

 

[GPC]

Derrel, you seem really disdainful about this. I'm not sure why. I've been pleasant and open to feedback.

It rarely takes three hours. Its never three continuous hours of shooting.

I am capable of taking 100s of beautiful shots in short periods, but infants and children throw in a ton of variables. When you photograph a newborn for 30 minutes who is working on a poop the entire time and looks like, well, a person trying to take a crap, you might need a wee bit more time. Is that so ridiculous?

 

[GPC]

Some parents are really funny about their kids images being online. Its only happened a couple of times that the parents have been adamant about it and I've let it go.

 

[pixmedic]

I can't imagine pulling off any kind of photo shoot in a half hour with great success. I sympathize with your situation GDC.

with a studio setup? 30 minutes is a fair bit of time if you are only looking for 15 pictures or so.
if your talking about in someones house where you are just using a speedlight and/or maybe one OCF, even better.

 

[orljustin]

"I shoot primarily candids. Sometimes I just hang in the back ground. I get very playful with toddlers and babies. The sessions are in the clients home and I just have a very relaxed approach that has worked very well for me. "

Translation: I don't know how to pose or direct people. I don't have a studio or dedicated outdoor location. And I'm so relaxed because I don't worry about lighting.

Lol...

 

[ErinJPhoto]

Wow. My brother in law Brandon Hill sent me this thread since I do a good amount of newborn/children photography. First of all, these forums should be constructive, not harsh and judgmental. The dripping sarcasm here is just so off putting and is why I generally don't participate in forums. So, to set you people straight:
1. Newborn sessions do in fact take 2-3 hours if you are doing your job. I am also a mom and there is NO WAY I would ever expect someone to come in a photograph my baby in 3o min. 30 min. is often how long it takes people to get their babies to sleep, diaper changed, fed, etc. You spend MAYBE 45-1hr min of the 3 hours actually taking pictures.
2. Lifestyle photography means spending time with them to DOCUMENT their lifestyle. Not shoving yourself in their door for 3o minutes and 'shooting' some pictures. For me, mine are 1/2 posed and 1/2 photo journalistic. So, posing them with a limp newborn takes time as parents don't have the first clue how to even hold their newborn without being stiff half the time! And getting them asleep enough to move them around without them fighting against you will also take a lot of time. It does not mean you shoot 1000 images and keep 20.
3. Cultivating the client relationship for lower volume studios means spending a good amount of time with them, getting to know them, making them apart of the studio family. Popping in and out the door in 30 min. will not create any client loyalty. Sitting patiently while they feed their baby, offering assistance, letting them know you're in no rush when they are stressed b\c their baby is crying, THAT is what will bring them back when they have a 6 month old and will also lead them to spend 1K for that session. I'm sure you rarely made that much in a newborn session Darrel.
And yes, I KNOW lighting, I know film, etc. So, don't even pull that BS with me about not being a real photographer b\c of how we work. Just b\c you shoot in a studio doesn't make you better than those who don't.
GPC- if I were to offer any helpful advice (and maybe you did this) but it would be to always setup a time to talk with them on the phone and do a consult beforehand b\c never NEVER freaking read the stuff you send! Never. Then they are surprised when things don't go as they expect so definitely call first. And second, I would just edit what you have and maybe their expectations are low and they won't even notice. If they do say anything you definitely have a leg to stand on by referring them to the info you sent saying it would take 2-3 hours, etc. I don't think they will ever give you the time you need so if they aren't happy I would just refund them at least part of their payment so they won't go bad mouthing you. Some people will just never be happy. Tell them to go to a studio where they will be serviced in the time they feel is appropriate. Hope this was more helpful than some of the other comments you received!

 

[tirediron]

I can't imagine doing a three-hours session either; at the end of two, I'm worn out and the clients are usually done as well, HOWEVER, I do know at least couple in Toronto that uses this methodology and their sessions normally run to several thousand dollars per (with print purchases), so it is definitely a viable business model - face it Derrel... the world, she is-a changing!

To echo what everyone else has said, what does your contract say? Problems like this are a big part of the reason why (1) All of my contracts are "lawyer-approved" and (2) I never promise a set number of images. Everything is, "approximately", "up to", or some other similar phrasing that indicates the end product without actually promising any definite quantity.

 

[GPC]

Thanks Erin. It seems like on the whole, I barked up the wrong tree posting here.

Cheers.

 

[stephdjohn]

Totally agree with Erin! I shoot a lot of newborns and my sessions are from 2-3 hours every single time. My galleries have roughly 30 images in them. My orders for newborn sessions are usually around $800-1k with most clients buying my $1400 collection. I treat my clients well and they are very happy with the experience. Unfortunately every once in a while we all get a client who is difficult.

GPC, sorry you were treated so rudely in this thread. To address your original question about what to do about this session (I didn't see you ask for a lecture on how you run your sessions/business), I would call them and explain that there seems to have been a miscommunication as far as expectations for the session, that you were not able to capture your typical images in such a short time. I would say that you totally understand how stressful having a newborn is, so maybe they didn't get a chance to read the information you sent them etc etc. Then you can decide if you want to offer to do a reshoot (ugh! I probably wouldn't because they seem difficult) or just nicely let them know that because they ended the session way early, the gallery will be very small. Good luck!

 

[kathyt]

Thanks Erin. It seems like on the whole, I barked up the wrong tree posting here.

Cheers.

No you didn't. I promise everyone that has posted here is generally extremely helpful and kind. (and some of them are pretty funny) Each of us has a different perspective on this that comes from our own experiences. Some of the members here may not have done these types of sessions before and might be thinking on the lines of a more traditional newborn shoot vs. these more modern, lifestyle sessions. I used to do these, but now I am mainly a wedding photographer. I would sell alot of canvas wrap clusters, albums, and image boxes. Being in their home was such a great way to upsell, because you could offer suggestions for what would look good where from all of your samples. My average sale from these sessions was extremely high, but yes they are very time consuming and require alot of patience and nurturing.

 

[12sndsgood]

From the origonal post people seem to be harping on the whole time frame issue and not reading into what was going on. They were short with her the entire time. short with each other. that doesnt sound like people who only want 30 minutes worth of photos. that sounds like two people who were likely fighting at the time and the OP just was there at the wrong time. Id likely give them a call when you have what you have edited. still only choose what are actually sellable photos, don't try and add trash photos in to up your number. just pick out ones you would normally pick out. call and tell them what you have and go over the contract they signed and just tell them you were only given 30 minutes and so you dont have that many shots. who cares if jon doe down the street takes 30 great shots in 30 minutes or less. thats not you and is irrelevent to the situation. When I did my first baby shoot it took about an hour or so and I got home and I just wasn't happy with the product I had. so I called them up. told them that I would like to schedule another shoot to get them them the best photos and I ate my time. in this instance if you told them a 2-3 hour shoot and you got 30 minutes they can ask you to come back or they can deal with what you got in that timeframe. my opinion of course.

 

[pixmedic]

Wow. My brother in law Brandon Hill sent me this thread since I do a good amount of newborn/children photography. First of all, these forums should be constructive, not harsh and judgmental. The dripping sarcasm here is just so off putting and is why I generally don't participate in forums. So, to set you people straight:
1. Newborn sessions do in fact take 2-3 hours if you are doing your job. I am also a mom and there is NO WAY I would ever expect someone to come in a photograph my baby in 3o min. 30 min. is often how long it takes people to get their babies to sleep, diaper changed, fed, etc. You spend MAYBE 45-1hr min of the 3 hours actually taking pictures.
2. Lifestyle photography means spending time with them to DOCUMENT their lifestyle. Not shoving yourself in their door for 3o minutes and 'shooting' some pictures. For me, mine are 1/2 posed and 1/2 photo journalistic. So, posing them with a limp newborn takes time as parents don't have the first clue how to even hold their newborn without being stiff half the time! And getting them asleep enough to move them around without them fighting against you will also take a lot of time. It does not mean you shoot 1000 images and keep 20.
3. Cultivating the client relationship for lower volume studios means spending a good amount of time with them, getting to know them, making them apart of the studio family. Popping in and out the door in 30 min. will not create any client loyalty. Sitting patiently while they feed their baby, offering assistance, letting them know you're in no rush when they are stressed b\c their baby is crying, THAT is what will bring them back when they have a 6 month old and will also lead them to spend 1K for that session. I'm sure you rarely made that much in a newborn session Darrel.
And yes, I KNOW lighting, I know film, etc. So, don't even pull that BS with me about not being a real photographer b\c of how we work. Just b\c you shoot in a studio doesn't make you better than those who don't.
GPC- if I were to offer any helpful advice (and maybe you did this) but it would be to always setup a time to talk with them on the phone and do a consult beforehand b\c never NEVER freaking read the stuff you send! Never. Then they are surprised when things don't go as they expect so definitely call first. And second, I would just edit what you have and maybe their expectations are low and they won't even notice. If they do say anything you definitely have a leg to stand on by referring them to the info you sent saying it would take 2-3 hours, etc. I don't think they will ever give you the time you need so if they aren't happy I would just refund them at least part of their payment so they won't go bad mouthing you. Some people will just never be happy. Tell them to go to a studio where they will be serviced in the time they feel is appropriate. Hope this was more helpful than some of the other comments you received!

speaking of dripping sarcasm and pretentiousness...

30 minutes is a fair amount of time for actual shooting. I was not talking about setup, changing, feeding, posing, discussions with parents. just actual photographing.
too much more than that is difficult on a child. and the parents. you do not need "hundreds" of photos in a newborn shoot.
"hundreds" is a wedding, maybe engagement, or some other "event", not a portrait session. I actually think GPC's 15-ish goal is pretty spot on for an infant shoot. we provide 10-15 on a normal portrait shoot.

I asked about lifestyle photography because i genuinely was not familiar with the actual meaning of the term. we are portrait and wedding photographers, so I know what those terms are. If you thought I asked for any other reason you are entirely mistaken.

the comments about a contract are spot on. do you do much work without a contract? we don't. ever. you can always refer back to the contract concerning what the clients should expect to get. if you over deliver, then so much the better. GPC has not yet said what their contract says about what is expected from them, so its difficult to weigh in on that subject, except that EVERY client should sign a proper contract on EVERY job.

I don't recall anyone here belittling anyone for not having a studio. we have a good deal with a local photography store that has a studio for all our portrait work that isn't done on location somewhere. its a pretty good arrangement.

lastly..."I would just edit what you have and maybe their expectations are low and they won't even notice."
seriously? You want us to take you seriously as a photographer, and you say THAT?? sorry, if you cant provide quality work, then you shouldn't give it to a client. ever. NEVER hand out sub-par work and expect that the client is too stupid to know the difference between good photography and bad.

GPC...do a re shoot. do NOT give a client sub par work. talk to the family, explain that the situation was not ideal to get the kind of quality pictures you want to be able to give them, and schedule a re shoot when everything can be lined up ahead of time and prepared. give them quality work, and when other people see it, they will see that you do quality work and want to use you too.
if you take the advice of handing them garbage, then that's what everyone will see, and you can never take that back.