Why professionals dislke some amateurs

[SCraig]

Some understand the point I was trying to get across and some don't, that is fine. I never said pros run the photo world, I never said the pros deserve the right of way. I pointed out that another camera owner walked into a situation knowing full well that I was standing there and chose to ruin a photo opportunity. I was pointing put that this happens all the time, and the message was, when you are out shooting pay attention to other people. If this had of been another person with credentials I would have posted the photo and said that, it just happen to be an amateur this time.

I got your point, and I understand it. You aren't the one I was pointing an electronic finger at. I apologize if I gave that impression, it wasn't my intent.

MY point is that there are a lot of so-called "Professionals" (again not meaning you) that are of the opinion that simply being paid gives them rights over others, even if the person paying them has nothing to do with the event. I promise that for every instance of an "Amateur" getting in your way I can quote a similar situation where a "Professional" got in mine. Unless a professional photographer has been hired by the organizer of an event, or the organizer has made special provisions for them, then they are no more and no less a visitor than anyone else. I have no objection in pointing that out to them when the occasion arises.

 

[imagemaker46]

To be honest about the 12 days I was shooting, security was a joke. I used this photo as it was one of the few situations that directly affected me doing my job. There were all kinds of times when spectators were allowed to roam around where they wanted, in one case the Canadian Press photographer was told to leave an area but the spectators were allowed to remain. This was not one of the most secure events I covered, the only people that seemed to get harassed by security were the accredited photographers. But that's another issue that has been going on for decades.

 

[imagemaker46]

Some understand the point I was trying to get across and some don't, that is fine. I never said pros run the photo world, I never said the pros deserve the right of way. I pointed out that another camera owner walked into a situation knowing full well that I was standing there and chose to ruin a photo opportunity. I was pointing put that this happens all the time, and the message was, when you are out shooting pay attention to other people. If this had of been another person with credentials I would have posted the photo and said that, it just happen to be an amateur this time.

I got your point, and I understand it. You aren't the one I was pointing an electronic finger at. I apologize if I gave that impression, it wasn't my intent.

MY point is that there are a lot of so-called "Professionals" (again not meaning you) that are of the opinion that simply being paid gives them rights over others, even if the person paying them has nothing to do with the event. I promise that for every instance of an "Amateur" getting in your way I can quote a similar situation where a "Professional" got in mine. Unless a professional photographer has been hired by the organizer of an event, or the organizer has made special provisions for them, then they are no more and no less a visitor than anyone else. I have no objection in pointing that out to them when the occasion arises.

I understand it wasn't a personal thing. I agree that there are lots of "wanna be professionals" that are being paid, and they feel because they are being paid it puts them on a higher plain than those that aren't, believe me I've been around this more times than I can remember. My thinking on the photographer that has been hired to cover an event, and I have been in this situation many times, that person has a responsibility to make sure that other photographers are put into positions where they can also shoot from. The event photographer should not be the person that is always in the way of the other photographers.

 

[vintagesnaps]

I was wondering about security at these games..... in my experience security is usually tighter than this, especially in this day and age. Not that someone wouldn't go around a roped off area (they do, or at least try), but an usher or security type would usually make them move and not allow them to stay in a restricted area.

It can be challenging enough to work around fans in and out of their seats and kids running around and the TV crews and the mascot tossing goodies into the stands and the concession workers carrying cotton candy over their heads - I enjoy it but it takes figuring out how to work around it all - then to have some nitwit with a camera get in a photographer's way?? Made me cringe seeing this photo.

Legitimate credentialed photographers are likely going to have special access to areas that are off limits to spectators; that doesn't mean a photographer would have to be rude or inconsiderate - to me having a pass was a privilege and a responsibility. Maybe I've been lucky that my experience has been with photographers working alongside each other and able to share their space and accessibility.

 

[runnah]

I was wondering about security at these games..... in my experience security is usually tighter than this, especially in this day and age. Not that someone wouldn't go around a roped off area (they do, or at least try), but an usher or security type would usually make them move and not allow them to stay in a restricted area.

It's Canada.

 

[imagemaker46]

It's also a low key sports event by most standards, well apart from the 4200 athletes. The security people are all volunteers, some of them let the power drift to their heads and cause more problems than they solve, others do everything as they are told, and some are too nice to be working security, and the rest have not got a single clue what they are suppose to be doing. Then we have the officials telling us where we can and can't go, even though we have the correct numbers on our passes to allow us to go to these areas. I was told at soccer yesterday that I was wearing the wrong colour shirt and the officials were concerned that they would mistake me for a player, that was a fun conversation, I thought the cameras would give them a tip, I offered to take my shirt off and stand there in my shorts but that wasn't an option for them. They ended up giving me an officials jersey to wear, like that helped. The funny thing is, I wasn't standing on the field, I was back in a corner against a fence sitting on the grass. This is the kind of thing that we get to deal with almost every day.

 

[pixmedic4 4]

It's also a low key sports event by most standards, well apart from the 4200 athletes. The security people are all volunteers, some of them let the power drift to their heads and cause more problems than they solve, others do everything as they are told, and some are too nice to be working security, and the rest have not got a single clue what they are suppose to be doing. Then we have the officials telling us where we can and can't go, even though we have the correct numbers on our passes to allow us to go to these areas. I was told at soccer yesterday that I was wearing the wrong colour shirt and the officials were concerned that they would mistake me for a player, that was a fun conversation, I thought the cameras would give them a tip, I offered to take my shirt off and stand there in my shorts but that wasn't an option for them. They ended up giving me an officials jersey to wear, like that helped. The funny thing is, I wasn't standing on the field, I was back in a corner against a fence sitting on the grass. This is the kind of thing that we get to deal with almost every day.

you should have taken the officials jersey, then run out on to the field and started calling fouls!

 

[HughGuessWho104 19]

I wish people where like that here in CT,they will run you down with there cars.I know it's not about the state per say but we seem to have all the loony tunes here.A couple from New York City moved next door to me and the first comments about the drivers here,That they take the cake and people think New York driving is bad.

CT is the "Me First" state. (Most) Everyone believe they are entitled. That's why I got the hell out of there when I had a chance.

 

[HughGuessWho104 19]

We live in a society where you stop your car and let people walk across the parking lot ... and the people STROLL ... DIAGONALLY ... in front of you ... no hurry, there pardner, take your time.

It's not a Pro or Amateur issue. It's just a people and consideration issue.

^ That. Exactly.

 

[Mach0]

CT is the "Me First" state. (Most) Everyone believe they are entitled. That's why I got the hell out of there when I had a chance.

Hahah just gotta learn to pay attention. I still live here and I know exactly what you are talking about .

 

[play18now]

CT is the "Me First" state. (Most) Everyone believe they are entitled. That's why I got the hell out of there when I had a chance.

Hahah just gotta learn to pay attention. I still live here and I know exactly what you are talking about .

I'm leaving for Southern California for school in a week. Want to compare notes? I'm not a professional, and only have one side of the picture because of that. But to me, this isn't a professional and amateur issue. It's a people and respect issue. The scary part is that few people these days have any respect at all. I wouldn't walk in front of anyone taking a picture without making sure I wouldn't ruin whatever shot they were setting up or currently taking, and I would hope that anyone else, regardless of their profession, would extend the same courtesy to me. If only that would actually happen all the time..

 

[tecboy]

This shot was taken at WWE SmackDown in CA. I don't care he is professional or amateur. I want to go over there and body slam this videographer on the table. Smack him with a folding chair. Do submission, suplex, pile driver, sharp shooter, thumbing in the eye, back breaking, hit in the groin, and everything else!

 

[imagemaker46]

tecboy;3029526]View attachment 52770

This shot was taken at WWE SmackDown in CA. I don't care he is professional or amateur. I want to go over there and body slam this videographer on the table. Smack him with a folding chair. Do submission, suplex, pile driver, sharp shooter, thumbing in the eye, back breaking, hit in the groin, and everything else![/QUOTE]

Unfortunately TV rules, always has, always will. Watch any big sporting event and when you see those in your face tight shots, know that there are dozens of photographers getting pissed off because tv is in the way again. There is no love between stills and video. When the networks are paying millions to cover events they really don't care about who's behind them. Tv dictates photo positions, what colour clothes photographers have to wear if they are working the floor, the idea is have them in black so they blend and don't stand out. I wore a bright blue jacket to one event and came close to getting tossed out, because I refused to change, guess what, I had to take the jacket off or leave. Like I said no love lost between tv and still, and in a lot of cases they aren't even willing to try and work out any solutions.

 

[EIngerson]

So by your logic anyone who has a career that involves being out public deserves no respect or consideration? I find that to be very rude as you would not like people coming into your place of work and making your job more difficult.

Well actually, I work for the government, that's what government employees do. Make my job hard. Yes I believe they do it on purpose too.

But in all seriousness, that is not what I am saying. I may be wrong, but I think photography would be the only real career where amateurs actually effect the professionals on a regular basis. The problem being photographers don't have a place of work, in this context, that doesn't include the public and amateurs. Something to be accepted, its not going to change. I find the idea that because a photographer is out in a public place and has to deal with the general public to get paid, doesn't mean they are more important or above anyone else. Just because they are getting paid to do what they are doing. Its an elitist attitude and would also be considered rude. So as I stated before, it goes both ways. The excuse "because its my job" is not an acceptable excuse in my opinion. Overread stated it pretty simply.

If my livelihood was dependent on taking photos, and I was hired to produce quality photos... I would think my position takes authority over those with iPhones.

It's not "elitism."

It's "I have to create a quality product to support my family, so don't impede on my ability to do that."

Employers don't care about excuses. If you miss a shot because you didn't want to be a little forward to someone who is making your job more difficult, then that's on you and, you should probably look for another profession.

That's a joke right? If I have the same access to an area that you do, I could care less what you're there for or who you work for. That's the lamest argument I've heard yet.

 

[rexbobcat]

Well actually, I work for the government, that's what government employees do. Make my job hard. Yes I believe they do it on purpose too.

But in all seriousness, that is not what I am saying. I may be wrong, but I think photography would be the only real career where amateurs actually effect the professionals on a regular basis. The problem being photographers don't have a place of work, in this context, that doesn't include the public and amateurs. Something to be accepted, its not going to change. I find the idea that because a photographer is out in a public place and has to deal with the general public to get paid, doesn't mean they are more important or above anyone else. Just because they are getting paid to do what they are doing. Its an elitist attitude and would also be considered rude. So as I stated before, it goes both ways. The excuse "because its my job" is not an acceptable excuse in my opinion. Overread stated it pretty simply.

If my livelihood was dependent on taking photos, and I was hired to produce quality photos... I would think my position takes authority over those with iPhones.

It's not "elitism."

It's "I have to create a quality product to support my family, so don't impede on my ability to do that."

Employers don't care about excuses. If you miss a shot because you didn't want to be a little forward to someone who is making your job more difficult, then that's on you and, you should probably look for another profession.

That's a joke right? If I have the same access to an area that you do, I could care less what you're there for or who you work for. That's the lamest argument I've heard yet.

That's probably because you missed my point.

I'm not saying you should care. I'm saying that - thinking that a pro is "pretentious" just because he's trying to put food on the table is dumb.

How can one be pretentious if they're simply fulfilling their purpose?

And I'm also saying that if I have a job to do then don't always expect me to just find another spot or be like "would you ever so kindly step to your right." I might say "excuse me" but beyond that I'm going to try and get a shot regardless of your opinion of me.

I guess I made the mistake of believing in civility or mutual understanding. My bad.