Wonderful!!! Now everyone will justify working for free

[abraxas]

if your good at something, never do it for free

Didn't the Joker (Heath Ledger) say that in Batman?

Here's a good one from Mars Attacks...

Why can't we all just join hands and get along?

... and then the President (Jack Nicholson) gets gutted.

 

[Joves]

Ah here we are again. And I must say it is just a fact in life htat people will do many things to irritate you. Just learn to live with it.

 

[table1349]

Ah here we are again. And I must say it is just a fact in life htat people will do many things to irritate you. Just learn to live with it.

Yeah that is so true. Like misspelling a simple word like that.

 

[ksmattfish]

I think the main point being made by the OP is that by doing the work for free you're basically saying that your work has no value.

What is also being implied is that the clients can't tell the difference between the work delivered by the pros being put out of business, and the amateurs running around doing it for free. The pros who are suffering don't want to talk about that, because then it puts their problems right back in their laps where it belongs. They'd rather pretend that people aren't clever enough to tell if they like a photo or not.

If anyone can do the job, then the job won't command much pay. That's the way free markets work. To show value you have to be able to demonstrate why it's worth paying more for you. If you can demonstrate this you will have no problems getting clients. There's a kid in my neighborhood that will mow lawns for $10; he doesn't seem to be putting the big landscaping companies out of business nor reducing the value of their services.

As one of my local pro photographer heroes once said "Another busy weekend. I'm tired of working so much; I guess I need to raise my prices." And how did that old T-shirt go? Something like "Soar with the eagles, or hang with the turkeys."

Times are tough, and people are much more value savvy than they are given credit for. The competition will only grow. If a photog's portfolio can't compete with the local hobbyists' portfolios it's time to consider another career.

 

[Joves]

Yeah that is so true. Like misspelling a simple word like that.

Hey some days I operate in typoVision.

 

[confused_in_the_darkroom]

i've read a fiew of alleh's posts before and i've noticed patterns.

She posts once or twice then never again once people have resisted her. And It's always the same topic when she gives us more of her bs. I think she is insecure and a drag. If she's as good as she supposedly is then why does she care? or is she just a grouch?

 

[Harmony]

I've always thought of Alleh as a guy...

 

[notelliot]

Alleh is female? hahahahahaha wtf.

PS - Why hasn't this been locked?

 

[greyhoundman]

The profiles on Model Mayhem and other sites list Alleh as male.

 

[Alleh Lindquist]

I think the main point being made by the OP is that by doing the work for free you're basically saying that your work has no value. A better approach to getting experience would be to attend workshops and shoot friends (which is entirely different than shooting anybody else for free) until you have built up a quality portfolio. Of course I may be totally off base as I'm nowhere near a pro.

He pretty much has it right. No I am not posting because I think I am losing work to people shooting for free. Yes most clients can tell the difference in quality. This has nothing to do with me. You don't have the be the best of the best once you feel you are good enough to start charging you find those clients that don't have as much money and you shoot for them. But when you start out and you are looking to make $50 here and $100 there you are pretty much screwed because you or someone just like you is doing it for free and hey maybe your work is a tad bit better but hey a tad bit aint worth paying money for when you can get it done free.

It is the middle ground of photography that is being eroded away not the high end making it far harder for people to get started. So if you are on here bashing me and you have hopes and dreams of being a pro someday good luck because remember your competition will be working for free.

It will also rarely result in paid work. Yes I hear all the stories and yes their or certain circumstances when it could be they best thing you ever did and end up booking all sorts of paid jobs from it but it is rare and only you can judge those opportunities when they arise. When I was first starting out I figured I would shoot some portraits of friends for free so I can try and book some jobs from it. I did about 4-5 friends for free and the emails poured in from a bunch of people because other people really liked the photos. I offered to do the same thing for $50 for all these inquires but nobody even responded because I had already put the value of my work at zero so even though $50 was cheap it was a huge price increase from free and nobody would pay it. A few months later someone finally did a shoot with me for $50 and I had 4 inquires from that shoot I offered up the same thing and booked 3 of those people. Same offer just different circumstances.

If you didn't read John Harrington's post and you are responding to my original post I suggest you go back and read it as anything you say has no bearing unless you took the time to read the argument.

 

[monkeykoder]

I do however find myself having the urge to shoot friends for free I just don't plan on getting any clients from it unless of course they see the images in my portfolio and like them then there is no need for them to know how much I was paid to do them. It gives me a chance to build a portfolio which really is my entire purpose.

 

[mrodgers]

I think the main point being made by the OP is that by doing the work for free you're basically saying that your work has no value.

Perhaps my work does have no value. I do this for fun, I have a cheap camera, I like my photos for me, and my family is going nuts over my photos. But in comparison, I am not producing extremely quality shots as I've seen posted here sometimes. Whether that is because of my cheap camera obviously not having the quality that you have with your extremely expensive equipment or it's my general shooting skills that is lacking, if someone wants one of my pictures to print out, I would give it to them.

I went to a hockey game with some coworkers. I had a wide shot of the arena that a friend wanted to print. I gave him the photo to go have printed. It was when I first started and wasn't as good of a shot that I could take now with more knowledge, but it is hanging in 11x14 inch size in his basement right next to his other arena picture (Joe Lewis Arena and Mellon Arena, at the time, neither knew that our Penguins would be playing the Redwings in the Stanley Cup.) I teased him about charging him $100 for a print, but gave him the photo.

I guess I'm a horrible horrible person having a blast shooting the hockey game all night long and giving him the photo....

 

[usayit]

But when you start out and you are looking to make $50 here and $100 there you are pretty much screwed because you or someone just like you is doing it for free and hey maybe your work is a tad bit better but hey a tad bit aint worth paying money for when you can get it done free.

If you haven't figured it out as an independent business man... that's business. Quality of final product versus cost. The goal is to have a enough quality in your final product that you rise above those that charge nothing or very little. The rest of us (me included) either continue to shoot for free or charge very little (happy doing so).

If that's too complex.. let me make it simple:

Rally your government representatives and make shooting for free illegal in the U.S. Then I'll stop. Go ahead.. I'll be waiting

 

[abraxas]

So it looks like the OP is damning people for doing the same thing he/she/it did.

 

[bigtwinky]

So it looks like the OP is damning people for doing the same thing he/she/it did.

Good point.

Do as I say, not as I do.