Wonderful!!! Now everyone will justify working for free

[Arch]

I'm not sure if this thread really needs to be open still... a few good points have been made and al'otter silly talk about small furry creatures

I'll add a point of my own to try and get the topic back on course... if not i'll lock it.

Im in the professional Logo design industry... you would not believe what the majority of internet companies charge for a logo to be designed. Most are about 4 times cheaper than me (if not more) sometimes i wonder how and why they can afford to spend any time actually designing them at such a low rate.
Does it affect me?... Not really. My website is better then theirs... my work is better than theirs... and my service is better than theirs. My customers are always 100% happy, and by the end of the design process they know they get thier moneys worth.
The same applies to photography... iv seen it many times myself.
In fact at times i have known good photographers to increase thier rate... just for the fact that some people prefer to go with a safe bet, and they didn't want to even appear as a low cost 'cheapy service'. As long as you provide that good quality service, your payment will be justified and they will still tell thier friends and family how good you are.

When it comes to weddings, its like getting your hair cut for the end of year ball or an important party where you want to look your best... do you get the trainee to do it for free? or do you get the proper hairdresser to do it?

 

[Lacey Anne]

Well since I was the first respondent to this thread and I didn't get an answer from the OP to my question I will ask the group, would you all prefer a Brie or perhaps a nice Wensleydale or is there another cheese one might prefer. The other thread had otters so I thought that cheese might be nice.


Because Brothers and Sisters, I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT CHEESUS.

I can't have brie while I'm pregnant. Sad, sad day!

Some people will give their work away. Some will charge almost nothing. Some will be reseanable for the services offered. Some will way overcharge. Such is the beauty of capitalism. Don't like it, don't be in business!

 

[benhasajeep]

Is this going to be big enough??

If I charged for popcorn and gave away free pictures, would that hurt the business? Maybe I could charge $1,500 for popcorn and give away free weddings? Or was that $1,500 for weddings and give away free popcorn? Hmmm, maybe I should have thought more about this before I posted. Sorry.

 

[Enough Already]

Might I suggest you call these photographers yourself and air your discontent with them instead of doing it here, time and time again. Ive been watching this forum for some time and when I joined I told myself I would not get wrapped up in all the BS that can be associated with forums like these, but the tip of my tongue has almost gone gangrene from biting it for so long, I had to say something. Your attitude screams insecurity. Just do your job and dont worry about all the other stuff that is going on out there. You alone, can not control it. No one can. Focus your energy on your business, not what other photogs are doing, they are not concerned about you. Get over it, and get on with your life. Its that simple.

 

[notelliot]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That's the best GIF I've EVER seen, and what a perfect thread to use it in.

 

[Jedo_03]

Depends what you mean by "free" - as opposed to "not-for-profit" - as opposed to "bartering", and "buddy-deals" and "that's-what-friends-are-for"... Not to mention "portfolio-building", "practicing" &c, &c...
Someone mentioned "charity work"...
Some of the folk in my town take part in Student Exchange programs and host - in their own homes, young people from all over the world - for a year... And when that young person returns to their home country, another young person from somewhere else comes to stay - for a year, and so on... (As an aside - I've not heard of any local hotel or motel owners complaining re loss of business - <grins>...) Anyways, this year, they decided to have a Debutante Ball for the young boys and girls - booked the local photographer (she was 'kind-enough' to offer a cut-price rate of only $1000 (Aus) to cover the Ball and Presentation) - (How's that for 'undercutting'...??) Then, a whole two weeks before the Ball, she apologised and pulled out... (We found out afterwards she had accepted a wedding at a big city 500 kms away... but that's business...)
Enter me: friend of a friend: panic call: side-opportunity to take host-family shots after the Presentation, gorgeous gowns and Tux suits and smiling host-family members. Cover the Presentation ceremony and the Formal Waltzes for FREE, make a little lens money with the family packages...
So everyone was happy - Student Exchange organisors, host families, exchange students. I didn't charge "photography rates" for the strobe shoots - didn't even make enough to buy a mid-range lens... But, NOW... I have 20 or so families that have adopted me as their 'family photographer'... Family portraits, child portraits, Engagements, (No - I won't do weddings as the first shooter - but happy to cover pre and post...) Maternity, Newborns, 3/6/9/12 month baby shots...
So there you go - Did I do the Deb Ball for "free" - or was it a wise (and profitable) marketing strategy...?
Free...??? - or Carpe deum...???
Jedo

 

[Gomes]

If i wanted money id be a doctor

 

[Jedo_03]

If i wanted money id be a doctor

What makes you think there's a profit in Medicine..?
Spread over the 5 years of Uni-Undergrad... 6 more years of Post-Grad, Resident, Registrar, Application to FRCP/S etc etc - you are better off driving trains...
Jedo

 

[monkeykoder]

I think the main point being made by the OP is that by doing the work for free you're basically saying that your work has no value. A better approach to getting experience would be to attend workshops and shoot friends (which is entirely different than shooting anybody else for free) until you have built up a quality portfolio. Of course I may be totally off base as I'm nowhere near a pro.

P.S. In all truth I really don't see a financial benefit to having a graduate degree period the cost benefit analysis says it barely pays off in the long run if you can get a job at that level and we already produce more people at that level than can be employed at that level. If you're thinking about getting that level of degree for the money don't bother.

 

[lids369]

if your good at something, never do it for free

 

[monkeykoder]

Free of course is a relative term.

 

[tirediron]

I think the main point being made by the OP is that by doing the work for free you're basically saying that your work has no value.

Absolute ********! Let's look at a couple of examples. A friend of mine is going through some tough times financially. He needed new brakes on his car. He had [barely] enough money to afford the parts, but not the labour. He brought me the parts, and I gave him 4 1/2 hours of my time to put new brakes on his car. That work would have cost him over $400 at a garage. I'd say there's definitely some value in that free work.

I'm going to shoot a wedding in the spring for free. Why? Because, like many young couples starting out, they don't have a lot of spare money, nor wealthy parents. This gives them their pictures free, and means I don't have to go out of hand for a wedding present.

I'm not taking away from anyone because if I hadn't volunteered to do it, they would have just relied on whomever brought cameras to the wedding sharing their photos. I think free work is some of the most valuable of all!

 

[monkeykoder]

Okay this is what I have to say. Number one I don't consider what you're doing working for free. With established relationships there is an exchange of products and services what you're doing is merely a part of that exchange. If you were to do the same job for someone that was not your friend you WOULD be devaluing mechanics if you were to do it for free. The only difference is that one experience with a screw up from a bad mechanic is a lot more costly (financially) than a screw up with a photographer. In conclusion helping a friend isn't working for free. If someone isn't looking to profit from your work (that you would do for free) there is some leeway there but you would have to be careful. If they intend to profit from it GET YOUR SHARE. As for the case of the wedding I think of it in the same way as you doing work on your friends car, it is an exchange (I of course assume there is a reason you're going to the wedding and would have planned on bringing a gift). Like I said earlier free is a relative term.

 

[table1349]

if your good at something, never do it for free

Gee, I'm good at being a friend to others. How much should I charge???

 

[table1349]

I think the main point being made by the OP is that by doing the work for free you're basically saying that your work has no value. A better approach to getting experience would be to attend workshops and shoot friends (which is entirely different than shooting anybody else for free) until you have built up a quality portfolio. Of course I may be totally off base as I'm nowhere near a pro.

P.S. In all truth I really don't see a financial benefit to having a graduate degree period the cost benefit analysis says it barely pays off in the long run if you can get a job at that level and we already produce more people at that level than can be employed at that level. If you're thinking about getting that level of degree for the money don't bother.

Sorry but I disagree with your assessment. What the OP is really trying to say is if you are doing work for free then the OP basically thinks your work has no value. My next question would be if the work has no value then why is the OP worrying about it. The contradiction here seems to indicate that there is value to the work and that make the OP is feeling threatened. Thus the several threads that have been started by the OP all with the same basic premise.