Wonderful!!! Now everyone will justify working for free

[monkeykoder]

What he is saying (and most of you seem to want to ignore) is that shooting for free is not very likely to get you paid jobs it can but it isn't likely.

 

[usayit]

What he is saying (and most of you seem to want to ignore) is that shooting for free is not very likely to get you paid jobs it can but it isn't likely.

Internships and apprenticeships often are unpaid but are also good paths into a profession... do you think the OP includes those too?

 

[monkeykoder]

Most internships that seemed worthwhile are actually paid as a matter of fact unless used for college credit it is illegal for them to be unpaid. Apprenticeships also legally have to be paid. Only through an accredited institution of learning can you get around minimum wage laws in the United States.

 

[monkeykoder]

Just for clarification this means no internship/apprenticeship provides no compensation it will come either in the way of college credit or in the form of money.

 

[monkeykoder]

On another note most of the people I've talked to about the unpaid/college credit internships say it was the biggest waste of their time ever.

 

[JerryPH]

Most internships that seemed worthwhile are actually paid as a matter of fact unless used for college credit it is illegal for them to be unpaid. Apprenticeships also legally have to be paid. Only through an accredited institution of learning can you get around minimum wage laws in the United States.

Illegal or not... change the word from internship to mentoring, and all of a sudden the amateur should be paying the pro for sharing HIS knowledge!

BTW, outside the USA, internships are not legally binding guarantees of being paid anything except the knowledge you can carry out with you.

I apprenticed (*another* word for the same thing... lol) under a pro, but payment was totally optional. I did not get paid the first 2 times I did a wedding. Third and last times I was paid substantial amounts.

 

[usayit]

Do you consider Shadowing a wedding photographer an internship/apprenticeship?

From what I've seen, internship/apprenticeship or working as a pupil underneath a professional photographer was one popular way to gain work experience.... most worked for nothing...

I've shadowed a couple and no way would I feel comfortable asking for $$ in return for the experience.

 

[monkeykoder]

It may be different in the world of trades vs professional as I only have knowledge of internships in the professional world all of which are paid if they're worth anything. The number one internship program in my mind would be Project Pipeline which is an internship program for high school teachers. The only difference in pay between someone in this internship and someone with a credential is the cost of tuition.

One of my points not sure if it is the OP's point is that the free work is still saying you believe your work has no value or that the value of your work is equivalent to the value of the experience in the cases mentioned above I would actually hesitate to say that you're working for free as you are gaining something you value. The professional you are working for/with may or may not see it the same way.

If we decided to go back to one of the points of the original post again we see something that does lend credence to the idea of unpaid apprenticeships. Assuming the person you're working with is getting paid your apprenticeship is not devaluing you as a photographer as no one is recieving final product from you for free.

I do believe the article the OP linked to actually did say that apprenticeships of this sort were not valuable but in my opinion if they do do harm it is probably small enough amounts as to easily be recovered from.

Another note I do believe there is a marked difference between an apprenticeship and an internship. Internship tends to be an apprenticeship in a professional (read only requiring degree into this) job while apprenticeship tends to have the connotation of being in a trade field (read certificate or just no degree).

 

[eyeye]

thank goodness you are so much smarter then everyone else. Must be a total relief for you.

 

[Joves]

thank goodness you are so much smarter then everyone else. Must be a total relief for you.

 

[Jklersy]

I thoroughly read both the first and second link and watched the movie at the end. When it comes down to it your just offended that the amatures work was "acceptable" where as yours is superior and I dont know about you but I would take acceptable for free long before I would pay for exceptional.

The pro's who are getting hit are obviously not selling themselves well enough. How many people do you think took a free photographer, got burned, and went back to their reg pro?

I cant wait to do some free photos! It will be a blast. It not only will be a blast for them but for me as well. and if they dont like what the end result is, then they can go and pay for diff photo's. i give no false hope of pro set ups or studio quality, but i do a heck of a lot better then the lead singers point and shoot, lol.

GL with you anti "fun for free" photog!! hope the guy who took your work sucks!!

 

[abraxas]

...

... Just another example of a complete misunderstanding of what I was trying to discuss.

How do you mean?

 

[usayit]

I guess I should leave the more advanced topics for a more professional place because if you have not worked as photographer it can be hard to understand the business side of it

Photographic side?. Perhaps

Business side? I think you are the one that doesn't understand.

 

[table1349]

How do you mean?

Not everyone agreed with him like a flock of good sheep should with their "shepherd."